Chariho School Parents’ Forum

August 12, 2008

Former RYSE BMA speaks out

Filed under: RYSE — Editor @ 1:40 pm

There have been a couple of comments from someone claiming to be a former Behavioral ManagementAssistant at RYSE.  The comments were placed under posts from months ago so I thought I would bring them to the front as they should not be missed.  I suppose it is impossible to tell if this is a real former employee of RYSE.  I can tell you that the ISP is unique – so at least we know its not someone using a different name. 

There two posts contain some cut and paste material but I am posting them in full.

As I read this I couldn’t help but think of Elaine Morgan and the gentleman at the Post Office who had to fight to keep their children out of RYSE – then I think of how the school’s legal bills tripled as we fought parents to keep their kids in RYSE.

Then I think of how the school committee’s response was to tell me I couldn’t have the legal invoices.  The very sad part is that while there are a couple of members who were on the committee when RYSE was developed, and had to know about the lawyers fighting parents – the committee is mostly new people but it still responded by blocking access to the legal bills.  So when they say, “we have a new committee now – and things will change”, all I see is more of the same.

The first was comment #62 on Hopkinton Parent’s view of Chariho 2010

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Listen to your children, please! All of the parent’s that have a daughter or son in RYSE, what you don’t know, I do, and 9 times out of 10 your children are telling you the truth. The only thing I ask you to do is not be strong-armed into thinking there is something wrong with your child just because these so-called ‘professionals’ say there is an indication your child may need special help. These are your children. They don’t know them. I can’t begin to tell you how many times the RYSE program has fallen apart. Think about it. If you have a student in RYSE, how many clinicians have you had? They all quit! They leave you and your child with nothing. If you put your child into the RYSE program they will be lucky if they make it out. The program is designed for the students to fail. I am not talking about ALP, I am only referring to the RYSE program.

Your ‘administrator’s’ favorite quote, (especially Riccis’) is, “We only have your son’s / daughter’s best interest in mind”. This is how they draw you in. Don’t believe it for one second. They want the money from the state. That money in addition to this ‘bond proposal’ Ricci keeps pursuing, will give him next year’s raise to add to his $122,000/yr salary, plus all the ‘perks’ he thinks he deserves. You vote for that bond and you are giving him a blank check. You are the taxpayer, he doesn’t live in your district. He has nothing to lose. However, it is your tax dollars that are paying for him to sit in his air conditioned office, which, by the way, is not falling apart!

First, ask for the estimates he got from contractors, that had bid (?) on the renovations! Has anyone received one in the mail? Legally, he is supposed to have 3 estimates, but we all know that won’t happen. What will happen is the same way he got his position, he slid under the radar and did not even give you the respect to vote for the person you wanted to run the district, and now look at the mess that was created. You are all fighting against each other!! I bet if you took one person out of the picture, there would have been a compromise a long time ago. Think about it.

I sat in a school committee meeting and watched (maybe 10) members put their tail between their legs and agreed with whatever Ricci said. Personally, put Felkner in as your superintendent. He is the only member of that board who has the backbone to challenge Ricci and ask questions. He is the only person who follows the letter of the law! I am somewhat disappointed that 3 towns could not get rid of the whole committee and get people that know what they are doing in there and that live in the district. After all, it is your tax dollars that are paying for this comedy of errors to continue!

In terms of RYSE, don’t do that to your child. Don’t you ever wonder why you are not allowed past that entry way without the permission of the ‘principal’, who by the way, does not have children of her own, (she hides behind certifications she has managed to accumulate over the years), she is not married, and always appears threatening. Ask questions; don’t be forced into something you know in your heart is not right.

Most of you are outraged parents. You have every right to continue asking questions until you are satisfied with the answers. If you don’t understand the answer it is because they are not telling you the truth. Don’t be intimidated by them. That is their weapon; they will use words you do not understand, make you believe that you, the parent, don’t know your child or what is best for him/her. You own that school district. You are at the controls. Band together, get rid of the administrators/representatives that enjoy hearing their own voices. Stand up for your children. Don’t let strangers, (which they are to you), tell you what they are going to do with your money, (at the detriment of your child). That is not the way it works.

My primary message is that this is the time in your child’s life when they are trying to establish their own identity. Don’t let RYSE take away their self-esteem. Don’t allow strangers to stigmatize your child for the rest of their lives! Do you know the consequences and limitations that this program will have on the future of your child? If you do have a child that needs special care, put them in an environment with experienced and professional people that can help him / her. Don’t put them in a program that will hinder them for the rest of their lives. Talk to each other. Arguing with the ‘wannabes’ puts you on their level; don’t lower yourselves.

Comment by Former RYSE employee — August 11, 2008 @ 3:40 pm | Edit This

 

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The second comment was posted on Letter from RYSE student –  this original post was a letter sent to the Westerly Sun from a student, who also was a relative of Lois Buck (and she posted it here)

 

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I know the student who wrote that letter and it breaks my heart to hear this. He drew a detailed picture of the Titanic for me 3 years ago, when he (and I, employed as a Behavior Management Assistant), were in RYSE. I am so sorry to learn of this. Yet, it has brought me to the point of exposing what is going on behind the front entryway of the RYSE building.

If I do not see this comment in this blog, I am going to the Westerly Sun. They will print it!

Parent’s, listen to your children, please! All of the parent’s that have a daughter or son in RYSE, what you don’t know, I do, and 9 times out of 10 your children are telling you the truth. The only thing I ask you to do is not be strong-armed into thinking there is something wrong with your child just because these so-called ‘professionals’ say there is an indication your child may need special help. These are your children. They don’t know them. I can’t begin to tell you how many times the RYSE program has fallen apart. Think about it. If you have a student in RYSE, how many clinicians have you had? They all quit! They leave you and your child with nothing. If you put your child into the RYSE program they will be lucky if they make it out. The program is designed for the students to fail. I am not talking about ALP, I am only referring to the RYSE program.

Your ‘administrator’s’ favorite quote, (especially Riccis’) is, “We only have your son’s / daughter’s best interest in mind”. This is how they draw you in. Don’t believe it for one second. They want the money from the state. That money in addition to this ‘bond proposal’ Ricci keeps pursuing, will give him next year’s raise to add to his $122,000/yr salary, plus all the ‘perks’ he thinks he deserves. You vote for that bond and you are giving him a blank check. You are the taxpayer, he doesn’t live in your district. He has nothing to lose. However, it is your tax dollars that are paying for him to sit in his air conditioned office, which, by the way, is not falling apart!

First, ask for the estimates he got from contractors, that had bid (?) on the renovations! Has anyone received one in the mail? Legally, he is supposed to have 3 estimates, but we all know that won’t happen. What will happen is the same way he got his position, he slid under the radar and did not even give you the respect to vote for the person you wanted to run the district, and now look at the mess that was created. You are all fighting against each other!! I bet if you took one person out of the picture, there would have been a compromise a long time ago. Think about it.

I sat in a school committee meeting and watched (maybe 10) members put their tail between their legs and agreed with whatever Ricci said. Personally, put Felkner in as your superintendent. He is the only member of that board who has the backbone to challenge Ricci and ask questions. He is the only person who follows the letter of the law! I am somewhat disappointed that 3 towns could not get rid of the whole committee and get people that know what they are doing in there and that live in the district. After all, it is your tax dollars that are paying for this comedy of errors to continue!

In terms of RYSE, don’t do that to your child. Don’t you ever wonder why you are not allowed past that entry way without the permission of the ‘principal’, who by the way, does not have children of her own, (she hides behind certifications she has managed to accumulate over the years), she is not married, and always appears threatening. Ask questions; don’t be forced into something you know in your heart is not right.

Most of you are outraged parents. You have every right to continue asking questions until you are satisfied with the answers. If you don’t understand the answer it is because they are not telling you the truth. Don’t be intimidated by them. That is their weapon; they will use words you do not understand, make you believe that you, the parent, don’t know your child or what is best for him/her. You own that school district. You are at the controls. Band together, get rid of the administrators/representatives that enjoy hearing their own voices. Stand up for your children. Don’t let strangers, (which they are to you), tell you what they are going to do with your money, (at the detriment of your child). That is not the way it works.

My primary message, however, is that this is the time in your child’s life when they are trying to establish their own identity. Don’t let RYSE take away their self-esteem. Don’t allow strangers to stigmatize your child for the rest of their lives! Do you know the consequences and limitations that this program will have on the future of your child? If you do have a child that needs special care, put them in an environment with experienced and professional people that can help him / her. Don’t put them in a program that will hinder them for the rest of their lives. Talk to each other. Arguing with the ‘wannabes’ puts you on their level; don’t lower yourselves.

“TEXAS”

Comment by Former RYSE employee — August 12, 2008 @ 11:06 am | Edit This

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156 Comments »

  1. OK Bill now post the letters that we have received in our packets from the parents that are happy their children have attended RYSE. We just had one in the last packet. We also had a parent that was begging us to allow them to keep their child in RYSE even though they had to move out of district for personal reasons. Speaking of the Bucks; Tom was at that meeting that night and thanked us for not allowing this. We felt this would set a precedent and wasn’t the right thing to do. EVEN though this child was excelling in the RYSE program, according to what the parent was saying. You should have two letters from one parent that you can post.

    Sure there could be lots of posts that can be made in the positive, by Present RYSE Employee.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 12, 2008 @ 2:06 pm | Reply

  2. Bob, you are missing the point – again. If a parent wants to keep their child at RYSE, fine. No problems. But if a parent doesn’t think that RYSE is a good fit for them, they shouldn’t be forced to attend. Do you agree?

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 12, 2008 @ 3:40 pm | Reply

  3. Interesting letter but really does not give specific examples. I would like more detail as to why this former RYSE employee feels this way. I would also agree with Bob and I would like to see both sides of the story so I can make an educated opinion. Please post all letters so we can get a better idea of what is going on. Posting this one and only letter that happens to praise Bill Felkner doesn’t really make me respect Bill more. I have to beleive he posted this letter to “toot” his own horn.

    Comment by chariho parent #2 — August 12, 2008 @ 4:24 pm | Reply

  4. Bill I don’t know why I always seem to “miss the point”. I have been on the school committee for a little under two years now. I have seen a few letters praising the RYSE program but I have not seen you post one of these letters here on your blog. My point being, put both sides to the story out there; we have parents that are very happy with the RYSE program.

    As for forcing children to attend RYSE……I have yet to hear of anyone put in a request to have their child transferred out. I have heard of two trying to keep their children in????? I can only speak of what I have seen since I have been on the committee.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 12, 2008 @ 4:41 pm | Reply

  5. When I requested the legal bills so we could find out why we were fighting those parents, why did you vote to hide that information? Then you actually made the motion to allow Ricci unrestricted access to legal help, something not even done under Pini. It’s pretty clear whose side you’re on. It’s either the establishment or the parents.

    And while we have plenty of Chariho sycophants on the committee, if you want me to post something, just send it to me. You have asked me to post something for you before and I did it – you know I will again. So the complaint is not founded. Or do you want me to do your work too and support the administration AND the parents at the same time?

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 12, 2008 @ 5:59 pm | Reply

  6. Mr. Petit doesn’t want to get it. He gets to decide where and how other people’s children will be educated, parents be damned. Power is intoxicating and too many involved with administering Chariho are addicted to telling parents what is best for their children. Why should any parent have to fight or take legal action to use an alternative program?

    Mr. Petit also fails to address the secretiveness of RYSE. Why not distinct budget where we can decide for ourselves the financial cost of RYSE? Why no tangible data on educational outcomes? How can a program with children testing at very low levels in math have such a high graduation rate?

    RYSE was snuck into Chariho and parents, many who are afraid for their children’s futures, are forced to trust strangers with making the right choices for their children. The letter writer is right…parents should be making these decisions…not Mr. Petit or Mr. Ricci.

    Perhaps if we were allowed to know how much of OUR money has been spent on legal fees fighting parents to force children to remain in RYSE we could assess for ourselves whether RYSE is worthwhile. Most importantly, why have any programs which limit parents’ choices? If not a lust for power, then why?

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 12, 2008 @ 6:03 pm | Reply

  7. Another thought for anyone with doubt. Mr. Felkner advocates for parents of special needs students to have many educational options. Mr. Petit defends a system with very few options for parents. Mr. Petit claims that no parents have ocmplained about RYSE since his tenure on the committee, yet at the same time he joins those supporting a one program approach. This is illogical. If Mr. Petit is confident RYSE is favored by all parents, then what risk is there in giving parents options? They’d all pick RYSE if Mr. Petit is correct. Either Mr. Petit doesn’t believe what he is saying or he doesn’t understand what he is saying. What else can we believe?

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 12, 2008 @ 7:05 pm | Reply

  8. CR, I find it interesting that you have said in past post that parent should be grateful for what is given to their children, because public education is from your opinion, a handout. Yet, you feel that we as taxpayers we should allow parent to chose to send their kids to different programs if they are not happy with the public program that is being offered to them. Don’t you think that will cost the taxpayers more to send these kids out of the district and to other programs.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 13, 2008 @ 8:18 am | Reply

  9. Bill you miss my point. I am not asking you to defend the administration. I am asking you to be honest! There are two sides to this story and you only post one. The letters I refer to are from parents NOT the administration and they actually have real names signed to them. Come on Bill, lets be honest. I will go back in time but I think we have received some of the bills you requested at one time. The part we shot down, (or you didn’t get I should say) was the names of these people on the bills. We were told that we couldn’t have the names of those people and they were blacked out of the information you requested, you fought and said we could have them because we are part of the school committee. We can check with this legal council if you want and make sure, if it is not illegal then you can request the information again. This is how I recall it, of course it is a little different then your version,so I suggest we ask for legal advice on it. Again!

    Chariho parent 2 parents do have a choice, remember the doors do swing both ways. If someone does not like the school or the program their child is in they have other options throughout the state to send their children too. Many of the students in this district go to other schools, so to say they have no option/choice is another smoke screen.

    CR I am on the school committee so like it or not I have the right to make decisions at our school. I try to make the most informed decisions that I can with the information I have. As for RYSE being illegal; this has been proven to be false. Enough said about that! As for children being stuck in the RYSE program, they have choice, if parents don’t like Chariho they can send their children to another school; many do go to private schools, another false statement! “Many parents afraid for their children” nonsense; if I feared for my child I would make sure I would take my child out of that feared area first and foremost; then I would figure out my legal avenue. I wouldn’t think you would let your child play in the middle of the road until they got hurt then tell them they should be off to the side would you? So I wonder how many “FEAR” for their children’s future. I know we “all” want better; we can always improve; but to say that someone fears for their future, another line I don’t believe. As for legal fees for forcing parents to keep their children in RYSE, “NONE”; since I have been on the school committee. I will tell you this, I feel for how Mrs. Morgan was treated that night, but I have also talked to other “PARENTS” that had children in RYSE at that this time and knew what was happening; again there is a lot more to this story then what is being told. So I go back to my original point; “both sides of the story and let the people decide”

    So Bill I don’t want you to do anything for me except be honest with all the tax payers and post all letters. I am not asking you to advocate for the administration, really not sure why you feel you would be. Post letters from parents that are happy with RYSE too? Remember they are taxpayers too or is it really because it doesn’t help your case?

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 13, 2008 @ 9:02 am | Reply

  10. Like I said, Bob, send me what you want posted and I will do so. I have before.

    You also said, “We were told that we couldn’t have the names of those people and they were blacked out of the information you requested,”

    First of all, I’m shocked, shocked that a lawyer would err on the side of protectionism…SHOCKED!

    Secondly, in Charlestown this same thing came up and was ruled that the information was public. I didn’t find this out until later when a former Charlestown council member called to tell me about it – but I bet Polouski knew it – doesn’t he always tell us how he reads “every line in the paper, every day” He didn’t say anything and you went along with the administration.

    And for the umpteenth time – allowing a child to leave a school is not school choice unless they are allowed to take their money with them. This is why the statewide funding formula panel only met twice – as soon as true school choice was included the unions balked. The Chariho committee is doing the same thing. If you really believe what you say then make a motion to allow children to leave the school WITH their money.

    I double-dog dare you (just trying to lighten the mood).

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 13, 2008 @ 9:56 am | Reply

  11. Bill I am not saying that with holding the names is right or wrong, and not going to claim I know more then solicators. I think we were told that legally they couldn’t show the names. This is why I said we can always ask the attorney’s we have now and see what they say. Heck we could even ask Hopkinton’s solicitor if you feel better with Patricia’s answer. I won’t speak for anyone else on if they knew any information or not.If I am told that it is illegal, then yes I go along with the administration. But the Administration didn’t say it was illegal; our solicitor did ( I believe.

    Now I understand Bill

    So choice to leave school is not choice unless the money goes with you? Interesting comment. So I have a child that is failing, school isn’t doing their job, I am in “FEAR” for my childs future……BUT I won’t take them out of this school and put them in a “better” school unless the money goes with me?????? So how bad is the education? Again, just me here, but if I felt that bad about Chariho and didn’t think my child was getting a good education I wouldn’t leave them there to fail. I would move them, then figure out what my next step is. See this way it is about my childs education first and not about the administration or legal fees. So you admit there is choice; just not choice with money? Seems to me people for years have been choosing where their children can go.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 13, 2008 @ 10:27 am | Reply

  12. I suppose if thats the way you want to look at it, you are correct. “Choice” is available but only for those who can afford it. The town collects money to educate the children as part of our social contract, and will allocate that money IF the child goes to a school of the governments choice. But where does that money come from? Oh, yea. US! So why does the governement get to decide where OUR money is spent – especially when they are spending it on US?

    Now, if we were talking about the Gates Foundation and their money then they could say, “if you want our money, you will use it as we see fit.”

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 13, 2008 @ 11:33 am | Reply

  13. If we had “plain old tranparency”, this whole dicussion would be a mute point.

    When information is withheld, questions will be raised.

    Comment by RS — August 13, 2008 @ 12:07 pm | Reply

  14. Mr. Petit simply doesn’t understand not having enough money. This is obvious in his cavalier attitude about budgeting, employee numbers and contracts. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and whether being a trust fund baby is the reason, he simply doesn’t get it.

    Does he think parents don’t provide adequate housing by choice? Does he think that children don’t always get enough to eat by choice? Has he heard of WARM…Wood River Health Center…Johnnycake Center? How can he not know?

    Mr. Petit’s callous disregard for the real life financial difficulties of Hopkinton families is contemptible. There are numerous families in Hopkinton who don’t have the financial means to send their children to private schools. Mr. Petit may be the only person I’ve ever heard who doesn’t seem to understand many families struggle with finances. Not everyone’s family owned a profitable business. Not everyone has been touched by wealth and good fortune. He truly is clueless.

    As for #2’s question in Post 8, I don’t know if alternative schools will cost more because Mr. Petit and the rest of the clowns refuse to provide clear details on special education spending. Whatever amount they are spending should be offered to parents looking for alternatives to RYSE. Forcing mainstream students into one school is bad enough, but when you don’t give parents options for their special educations students you can’t help but recognize a system which protect adult employees at the expense of children’s futures.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 13, 2008 @ 8:21 pm | Reply

  15. The 47% RYSE graduation rate is poor and I am sure a number of students take 5 years to graduate, but the 35% drop-out rate that everyone is ignoring is worse. RYSE is not helping a large percentage of students who are old enough and bored enough and angry enough to quit. Why is no one concerned about the enormous drop-out rate? There are only 17 students in the cohort – that means that 8 graduate, 7 drop out, 1.5 is still in school and .5 gets their GED.

    Any employee using company time for personal or extracurricular activities is stealing from their employer. Therefore, any employed person using their time on campus during a school day (that we pay for) to assist a parent to find a job is spending Chariho money. We are not a social service agency. We pay for those too through our state taxes.

    Comment by BabaraC — August 13, 2008 @ 10:53 pm | Reply

  16. Agreed, Barbara. On point one, obviously. On point two – especially so. The parent in question must not be eligible for normal welfare job supports (or they would be using them). Those services were designed with certain limits (not many in RI by the way). Using RYSE services to do that job ignores the normal limits and the people providing the service now get to decide who qualifies. Conflict?

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 13, 2008 @ 11:43 pm | Reply

  17. CR you really have no clue as to what you are saying. My step father owned the company you speak of. do you know how my familied lived before that? You say you know me, YOU DON”T! you may know that part but there was a lot more before that. Oh we struggled but my mother did a great job GOD rest her sole. So stop trying to make it sound like I am some rich boy that has no clue, when it is really you that has no clue.

    I know what people are going through, as I am going through the same struggles, live week to week just like everyone else.

    “He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and whether being a trust fund baby is the reason, he simply doesn’t get it.” You need to reseach more becasue your can’t be further from the truth. But you do always seem to run and bring family into your arguements when you have nothing else to say. The sad part is sometimes you have great things to say and great ideas other times you show how ignorant you really are.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 14, 2008 @ 9:39 am | Reply

  18. Mr. Petit is the one claiming parents with special needs children have the choice to remove them from Chariho and put them in private school at their own expense. He can only believe this silliness if he thinks the majority of parents have tens of thousands of dollars available to spend on education every year. This would be in addition to the taxes they pay.

    I don’t hold his personal situation against him. God bless him and his family if they made choices which resulted in an affluent lifestyle, but when he callously suggests parents of special needs children are to blame when they willfully choose RYSE, then he is either ignorant of the economic realities of most families or he knows his argument is bogus but makes it anyway to try and fool the public. The reason for his ridiculous assertions is probably a little of both.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 14, 2008 @ 2:15 pm | Reply

  19. As if to emphasize the disregard Mr. Petit shows toward other families, The Rag reports today that 20% of children in Washington County are at or below the poverty line. Considering the expense of paying for private school plus paying taxes to send other people’s children to school, even families living well above poverty would have a difficult time having the “choices” Mr. Petit seems to think they have.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 14, 2008 @ 4:13 pm | Reply

  20. CR, I think you’re missing Mr. Petit’s last point. You tend to come across as prosecutor, judge and jury about other people’s situations when you don’t really know a darn thing about them. You’ve made all sorts of accusations about me when you don’t even have a clue as to who I am, what I do for a living, what my financial situation is. Just knowing what you’ve said about me and knowing how off the mark you are, I discount what you say about others. Continue throwing out darts, maybe one day you’ll be right about someone.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 14, 2008 @ 6:29 pm | Reply

  21. People’s words speak for themselves. Mr. Petit or CharihoParent can claim to be whatever they want, but if their words or actions tell a different story what can I do?

    Mr. Petit past is well documented by people other then myself. Good, bad, or indifferent, it is what it is. He wrote here…for all to see…that parents of special needs children have choice because they don’t have to send their children to RYSE, they can pay for private school. This statement in and of itself tells us what we need to know about Mr. Petit. I don’t make it up…he writes it. Just as others write ridiculous things about Chariho and then try to cover up by claiming to be victims of big, bad old me.

    If you don’t mean it…don’t write it. If you write it…then I’ll feel free to offer my opinions. I don’t have to throw darts at CharihoParent or Mr. Petit. They are already full of self-inflicted dart holes.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 14, 2008 @ 8:37 pm | Reply

  22. CR, you’re so full of BS you really do stink. You are totally clueless.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 14, 2008 @ 8:46 pm | Reply

  23. A very cogent argument once again. Congratulations.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 14, 2008 @ 10:50 pm | Reply

  24. CR, your pointless, totally false accusations do nothing at all to bolster your positions. Instead of making these accusations, why don’t you just debate the actual arguements? Until you can do just that which, to me, is the reasons for blogs such as this one, you’ll continue to stink out the joint. At least Lois Buck can argue positions without stooping down to your level and sticks to the issues.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 15, 2008 @ 4:53 am | Reply

  25. Way to refute my contention that Mr. Petit’s misrepresents choice, as private school is not a choice for many, if not most, parents of special needs children. Families are forced into RYSE as their only choice because they can’t afford to pay for private school…made even worse when it is a private school catering to special needs at a cost of tens of thousands per year.

    It’s not me who opts to debate personalities. I’m still waiting for a reasonable explanation on how parents can choose an alternative to RYSE without having to rob a bank to do it? Mr. Petit and his cohorts control our money and they get to decide, not parents. There is no truthful response other than to acknowledge that the School Committee refuses to give parents the choice. Since Mr. Petit doesn’t want to admit the truth, we get into a battle over tangetial nonsense. CharioParent employes the same strategy.

    Transparency – accountability – academic results – secretiveness – budget games – never-ending bonds – all of it is indefensible so the trick is to turn the discussions to something other than the way Chariho operates. Whining about being a victim of mean, old Curious Resident is one way to avoid dealing with the facts.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 15, 2008 @ 9:04 am | Reply

  26. Chariho parent don’t bother. let this person argue among himself/herself. You are right there are people that will come here and have great debate over things that are happening. I have picked up some really good information from this blog, Lois Buck for one is very good with this. I have heard from people directly asking for information and have supplied them with it; people that won’t respond on this blog because they are tired of the name calling and foolish comments that are made.

    All of what CR says boils down to this;

    ” people do have a choice” that is all I am saying.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 15, 2008 @ 9:44 am | Reply

  27. As for a RYSE student, if they choose to go somewhere else they would get the money to help. If my child went to RYSE and I didn’t like the way it was ran or the education they were getting, i would move my child than do what I had to for the funding. First they have state aide, then medicaid, and then they can ask the district to pay the rest.

    All of this money is covered by one of those 3 and in some cases I am sure medical insurance comes into play, so can they move their children to a better school/environment? YES; they have CHOICE, and I go back to one of my first comments. I have been on the school committee for almost 2 years, I am speaking for myself here, but I haven’t or don’t remember one case coming in front of us where a child has been pulled from RYSE and we are fighting them or telling them they can’t pull out. I have had a few letters in my packets from parents saying how RYSE has helped their child and how pleased they are with it.

    I cannot and will not make statements as to what happend when RYSE was first formed. Just remeber there are two sides to every story, you basically heard one.

    Do we need to work on Chariho getting better? YES! I have said this all along. But I would like to be part of the solutiion not the problem. I am pround of Chariho, I feel my son gets a good education there and I will continue to try to make it better, and I will continue to look at ways to do it cost effectively.

    So CR I hope this answers your question as to how parents can take their child from RYSE without having to rob a bank to do it. There are ways. And I don’t see it the way you do, I think you have been told numerous times answers to a lot of your questions/comments; YOU just don’t like the answer you receive. That is when it goes to name calling or brining in families and making comments that you really have no clue to. Funny, my grandchildren sometimes don’t like the answers they get and they throw a temper tantrum too; only thing is the are all under two years old.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 15, 2008 @ 10:00 am | Reply

  28. Well at least Mr. Petit finally provided a theoretical way in which parents of special needs can choose an alternative to RYSE. The process seems pretty onerous, if it is even possible, but at least its an answer.

    Mr. Petit has said many times we only hear “one side”. What he doesn’t say is that the other side…the Chariho side…keeps their shrouded in secrecy. Thus we have RYSE brought to Chariho with little fanfare and limited public awareness. While it didn’t happen on Mr. Petit’s watch, there is no reason he can’t question RYSE’s effectiveness and cost now. Especially considering voters are being asked to approve millions more in spending for RYSE. This would be the resxponsible approach to dealing with RYSE. I won’t be holding my breath.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 15, 2008 @ 11:29 am | Reply

  29. RYSE effectiveness and cost has been questioned and answered. You don’t like what you hear so you continue to ask why? Millions more in spending? Just covering a building that you all ready spend money on each year to rent. I also think you have your answer in the fact that the RYSE program was leagal and done legally. I am sure that at the time the RYSE program was being talked about at the school committee meetings people could have attended and voiced their opinions. As like now, no one goes to the meetings and when something is done, it is claimed to have been done in secrecy because no one was at the meetings.

    “Well at least Mr. Petit finally provided a theoretical way in which parents of special needs can choose an alternative to RYSE. The process seems pretty onerous, if it is even possible, but at least its an answer.”

    another well thought out comment…..with the intelligence you have on everything that happenes CR I would have thought you wouldn’t need me to tell you this information. But even when you have been given an answer it is onerous or impossible. I don’t think it is either; I think it is a “CHOICE” for parents.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 15, 2008 @ 12:30 pm | Reply

  30. Mr. Petit, you are just wasting your time and energies with CR. Please remember this is one person and only one person. Your work to improve Chariho is greatly appreciated and CR is simply ignorant. The statements that he/she write are just harmful to the good of this community. In addition, I think it very irresponsible of Mr. Felkner, a representative of the Chariho School Committee, to only post the negatives of Chariho.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 15, 2008 @ 4:31 pm | Reply

  31. Bob, you said, “”
    First they have state aide, then medicaid, and then they can ask the district to pay the rest. All of this money is covered by one of those 3 and in some cases I am sure medical insurance comes into play, so can they move their children to a better school/environment? YES””

    Thats not true, Bob.

    First of all, and most importantly, “the district” will not pay anything for someone leaving the school by their own choice. When we had the South Kingstown student that wanted to go to RYSE, I asked that if we allow this student to come in would we then allow a RYSE student to take their money and go elsewhere and the answer was no. That was the whole rationale for me to vote no. You were there.

    As for Medicaid, that covers things not covered by the school – services outside of the norm and for poor families. A very small portion of the $65,000 per student.

    As for the 3rd option, “state aide” – I have no idea what that would be. Please explain.

    Finally, regarding you not remembering a student that wanted out of RYSE – you were there when Elaine Morgan spoke weren’t you? ANd why do you think our legal bills went from $50,000 per year to $160,000 when they started placing kids at RYSE? Or the lawsuit that I’m not allowed to see documentation for. And speaking of your protection of that iron curtain, if the committee is the ultimate authority at the school, does it really make sense that the administration can see the invoices but we – the people who approve the bills – cant see the invoices.

    Basically, there is no way a parent can leave RYSE, by their choice, and get the money. Just like they can’t leave Chariho, by choice and have the money follow them (at least not yet). So your statement is patently false. Unless I, and all the school choice advocates I work with (including the lawyers at IJ), all of us have overlooked some miracle option – so please fill us in.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 15, 2008 @ 4:53 pm | Reply

  32. PS. Bob, if the RYSE expenses were provided, could you please tell me how much legal expenses were for RYSE? That’s just one item I didn’t see on the list. But since you continue to say that the question was answered, then I assume you have a more thorough spreadsheet than the one page joke I was provided.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 15, 2008 @ 4:56 pm | Reply

  33. They say it and therefore it must be true.

    I could fill a page with the unanswered questions we have raised which have gone unanswered. The joke is on the taxpayers and the ultimate price is paid by the children who get much less than the cost paid by the community.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 15, 2008 @ 5:43 pm | Reply

  34. CP2 REF#30….do you also find it as irresponsible for the administration to withhold information from the taxpayers as you do BF to post a negative about Chariho? I guess you think any committee member should be loyal to Chariho and its administration and not t othe taxpayers who elected them to the position?

    Seems to me you might have some confusion as to the duties of the elected officials, or you could be one of the defenders(NEA lackey) of the proud record the Chariho system has produced.

    I am not defending BF, he doesn’t need anyone to do that, just trying to weed out the trough feeders so I can ignore their future posts.

    Comment by RS — August 15, 2008 @ 5:48 pm | Reply

  35. What I find to be irresponsible, is someone whom claims to be a leader for his community, not telling the whole story. Talk about withholding information. Bill should also post the letters from the parents that happen to like RYSE. I do not have a child in the RYSE program so I would like both positive and negative posted so that I can make an informed opinion. His job is to help keep his community informed about the school and telling one side is dirty and misleading. Lets post all information, he shouldn’t just pick one that he likes, that happens to praise him. The letter he posted, was from an x-employee so I would like the letters from more than one source. You all complain about the school committee not providing information, yet its okay for Bill to only post one side of the story.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 15, 2008 @ 6:39 pm | Reply

  36. The old saying, there’s two sides to every story. We should hear from both sides, not just one.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 15, 2008 @ 7:17 pm | Reply

  37. So we already knew how you felt about BF post, but you never answered how you feel about the Chariho administration and the entire school committee.
    Or I guess that was an answer, you must agree with the system.

    Comment by RS — August 15, 2008 @ 7:54 pm | Reply

  38. To answer your question RS, I believe if you are going to post information in a public form you need to play fair. I am not interested in just the dirt and gossip. I want all sides displayed and I want the information to be accurate. The school committees job is to keep the public informed about both positive and negative activities going on in the school. The members of the committee need to work together in making good decisions for our school children of this community and if we dont’ like the job the are doing then you vote them out. I expect the members of the school committee to conduct themselves as positive role models for our students. I have been in this community for sometime and I have heard the same dirt over and over again and it just continues year to year. It appears to be the same group doing the digging. RYSE is a new program, its going to have problems, as all new programs do but you people just look for anything to stick it to someone. It is amazing how cut throat you all can be. As far as information being withheld, I have not come across this problem. The internet is a great resource for information. Your public meetings are a great resource for information. You just have to do your homework. However, even when you people are provided the information, you claim its not trustworthly. So I don’t question the school committee, I do question the people who are trying to bring it down and what their motivation is.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 15, 2008 @ 9:46 pm | Reply

  39. I see, Chariho is wonderful, the administration is forthcoming, and our children are the most superbly educated amongst their peers. All this for the bargain price we pay in taxes.

    I think I want seconds, pass the plate please.

    PS…Guess I’m a dummy, tell me how to do my homework so I can find out what largess in the next series of contracts will be so we can cut the fat. Oh, I forgot, we can’t see the largess until after the contract has been approved.
    This is the information we need. So now you know what is being withheld. I thinks me smell another serving at the trough.

    Comment by RS — August 15, 2008 @ 9:57 pm | Reply

  40. Why do we need the other side of the story? I readily concede that some parents like RYSE and want their children to remain in the program. Never said otherwise. The problem is that there have been parents, and may continue to be parents, who do not think RYSE is best for their children. These parents go unheard or the administration hides them from us behind legal mumbo-jumbo.

    The solution is simple…make RYSE optional. If Mr. Petit and the rest are correct, no child will be removed and RYSE can continue to employ half the state. The fact that RYSE is the only option Chariho will give to parents tells me more than anything CharihoParent #1 or #2 can tell us. If the program is so great, why are so many so afraid?

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 15, 2008 @ 11:39 pm | Reply

  41. Please clarify “so many”. How many students/parents want out of the program?

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 7:22 am | Reply

  42. We need both sides of the stories because I want to make an informed decision of RYSE expecially if you are asking the members of this community to vote on a bond that will continue to fund the program. If everyone enrolled in the program has a problem with it, then that should be public information. If it is a program that is working and people are happy about with it, I need to know that also. My point, tell me the whole story and then let me decide how I want to vote. BF telling us only what he wants us to hear , is a waste of time for everyone.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 7:31 am | Reply

  43. Yes, we need both sides of a story.

    But, keep in mind this comment by the BMA, “If you don’t understand the answer it is because they are not telling you the truth. Don’t be intimidated by them. That is their weapon; they will use words you do not understand, make you believe that you, the parent, don’t know your child or what is best for him/her.”

    Now, put yourself in the parents’ shoes after years of this kind of treatment. Who do you think the parent is going to believe?

    Speaking from experience with the family member that was in RYSE, the parents of this child were not told everything, based on numerous conversations with them about this issue. They likely would have wrote a letter of praise as well. Now that they have gotten the real information, their tune has changed. But, the sad part is that the young man has quit school and is hopefully going to try to get his GED. He has told me his asperations, and they do not include RYSE.

    Now, put yourself in the student’s shoes. His disability is stacked against him. No-one wants to hire him. Did the school teach him life’s lessons? Did they teach him how to care for himself if his parents should move on to a better place in the near future? Will he be able to be a productive member of society without being dependent on the system to take care of his needs?

    Back to the quote from the BMA. Simply, if information is withheld from the parents and the ability for them to enter the facility is restricted, how are they going to get the real story? It is the many in the school versus the student. The parents are likely to believe the adults rather than the children.

    I would hope that if we learn anything from this is that the parents should have access to their children within the school (ie…transparency), they should have an outside advocate available at all times to explain the technical jargon that they try to confuse you on, and that if a child raises questions in your mind, as a parent, you should demand answers. Do not assume the worst of your child.

    Lastly, I would ask the the school committee to verify the process for students in RYSE that may want to exit it and go to another facility. Step by step, what they, the parents, need to do, so that they can procure the funding to be able to send their children elsewhere. Is there an application process? Is the parent guaranteed funding for tuition and transportation if they choose this option? Where in school policy is this guaranteed?

    If they have choice, then let’s provide the map of the process for them.

    Comment by Lois Buck — August 16, 2008 @ 10:10 am | Reply

  44. Bill the medicaid part is just a part of the funding. But you do agree it is there. If they go to Butler is there no state funding for this? Isn’t this why the state is trying to make schools bring back their students? To cut out the expense to the state? Check with RIDE on this. There are places they can go and I am sure they can get help. As far as you asking about letting this student in from S.Kingstown would you have approved it if they said yes? Also who said no? Barry?

    Have we had a parent come to the “school committee” and even so much as ask us if this could be done? NO!

    Mrs. Morgans problem was before you and I were on the committee so you can’t honestly tell me you know the whole story. You keep talking about all of these parents and keep bringing up one name. I am not going to talk about Mrs. Morgan or things I have heard about this case on here,it isn’t right or fair to Mrs. Morgan, but I will say that there is more there then meets the eye.

    Bill be honest here stop trying to make it more than what it is. You can see any invoice you want. It is public record. You don’t like it because you were told you could not see the names that are on the invoices. Can’t say I blame them for that one. They would end up posted here would they not? Do you think these people want to have their names plastered here? But, the real fact is no names. You can ask the solicitor again if you can see the names on the legal invoices and see what they say. If they say it is legal, request them again i don’t see a problem with that.

    Personally, i will be honest, my child has some things that I really don’t think is any of your business even if you are on the school committee. I work with councilors and teachers on it. I have since he has been in school and unless you have a degree in teaching or medical, well you can’t help me or him so I don’t have a problem with not seeing names on a document. Who’s name is on it shouldn’t change how I vote to do something and I hope it doesn’t with you either.

    Legal expenses for RYSE for what period?

    I can understand parents at the begining not wanting to bring their children back to Chariho. It was change, something new, not proven. No one likes this, but it has since changed and becoming better, is it not? Lets really look into this if we can. Go back to when the students were out of the district, see what the graduation rate was, see what the attendace was and then we compare to today and see if things are better.

    chariho parent I agree with you on your comment about “many”. i sit on the school committee and not had one person come in front of me saying they wanted out. Mrs. Morgan was talking about the past, when RYSE first came to Chariho, and yes, all though I was not there I am sure there were a lot of problems at the begining. I bet there will also be a lot of bugs to iron out with the new mayoral school. does it mean I am against? not at all. But wait and see how it gets ripped if things aren’t great the first year. Because people don’t like change.

    You are also right about information, it is there. Sometimes you have to look for it. Most questions have been answered. I stand by what I said, in that, they don’t like what they hear, so they just ask a different way. Well, after a while you can only ask so many ways and people get tired of answering. Same old same old year after year and they talk about statis quo.

    Question I have –

    why can some people go out and find any information to prove something that they feel is good or the way they think it should be, but then draw a mental block when it is time to do some homework on things they are just negative about all the time?

    Comment by bob petit — August 16, 2008 @ 10:15 am | Reply

  45. Lois the first thing they need to do is talk to the administration. If they don’t get the answers they are looking for or aren’t satisfied they have the right to come to the school board. They can come to us and tell us their side by ” having it on the agenda” ( i want to say that before Bill claims he did). I hear it on this blog about unhappy parents and I am sure there are some, but are they that unhappy that they want to leave? I don’t have a map to give them. Then again I don’t have a map to give a parent who’s child has a uncurable illness either. But I am sure that they would make a decision to do something about it. I didn’t have a map with my son,I had to make a decision on what I wanted and how I wanted it and I went for it.

    There are steps to be taken and I would not have a problem helping a parent through this process if they need help. Teachers, administration, school committee. So please if you know of someone that has done the first two and are still unhappy and want their child out ask them to either request time on the agenda or have one of the school committee members do it.

    Bill I know you will read this and just so you know, I won’t go on discussing Mrs. Morgan. I don’t feel it is right to keep throwing her name out there. You were told that night and since then, if you want to have her come back and discuss this issue have it on the agenda. Everyone else including the committee members have to do it this way.

    Comment by bob petit — August 16, 2008 @ 10:31 am | Reply

  46. REf #42, We have been asked to vote on a bond to fund RYSE, I thought only building bonds were voted on…did I miss something?
    Or perhaps some of us are confused.

    PS Still waiting on the proud people of the Chariho administration to tell me what they and the school committee has accomplished for the taxpaying people of the district.

    Comment by RS — August 16, 2008 @ 10:37 am | Reply

  47. CP2,
    As I have said several times now, if Bob, or any one else, wants me to post a letter or message I will do so. i have in the past for Bob – so he knows this. If you are asking me to go back and find a letter he tells us about then I think that is a little unreasonable. Bob is capable.

    As for your need for “balance” – we know there were several complaints that necessitated legal intervention to keep them at RYSE, and I’ve heard from two more since then – but even if it were only one, would you use that as a rationale to support the monopoly or can we at least agree that if even one parent wants to take their child (and their share of the money) elsewhere then they should be allowed to?

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 16, 2008 @ 11:31 am | Reply

  48. Bob, go to the dry cleaner in Ashaway and talk to Elaine yourself. Then ask Elaine to call the woman whose obese son was PLACED in RYSE against his wishes (contrary to what Perry says). Then go to the post office (both Bradford and Ashaway – depending on the day) and ask Bob about the case his family had to go through.

    Then ask Ricci if there is an issue at the Dept of Education where Chariho filed (another) appeal regarding info that was not provided to a parent, contrary to the ruling of DOE.

    Parents don’t come forward because they are afraid. They trust us to represent them.

    My work goes far beyond this issue or town. I wouldn’t risk it by making any of this up. I’m in a “debate” with Bob Walsh on AR right now – do you think I would waste my time or risk my rep on a school I don’t even send my kids to if there wasn’t something there? I don’t even have time to read all of your posts (brevity and wit and all that). Wake up and stop drinking the Kool-aid. You have such passion – if only you would use it for the parents.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 16, 2008 @ 11:43 am | Reply

  49. RS, the bond is in support of the a new RYSE building. Your play on words don’t amuse me. BF, I think you missing the point. If you want the community of CHARIHO to beleive the RYSE program is truly terrible, then support it with more detail. Give us more than one student and an ex-employee. One student and one ex-employee is not enough information to call the program a failure. I don’t think that is fair. If you have other letters to support this, by all means post it but I would also ask that you post the positives. I understand this one child was unhappy with the program and my heart goes out to the family. I don’t have the whole story so I really cant give you an opinion regarding this case. However, if all or a large % of the children are unhappy then we have a “real” issue. If you have information that supports that, then its your duty as a school committee member to show the community.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 11:50 am | Reply

  50. OK Bob, I am asking now. I would like a copy of the negotiations as they transpire with any of the unions. DONE.

    Do I also need to ask the administration(protector of the union) or is asking the school committee going to be enough.

    Comment by RS — August 16, 2008 @ 11:53 am | Reply

  51. OK I think I may have the score card correct:

    Those in favor of the NEA, taxpayer waste, and feel good programs without any fiscal restraint and opposed to the taxpayers wanting some accountability for their money are……..
    Any and all using Chariho Parent and its suedo’s, & Bob Petit.

    Those in favor of fiscal responsibility, not throwing more money after failing programs(accountability), not endorsing the NEA lackies(accountability & transparency), taking responsibilty for their child’s well being and upbringing as opposed to allowing socialist endocrination programs to proliferate….Well, that would be the rest of us.

    Those seeking to be taken care of by the “system” will never want to assume responsibility for their decisions, actions and state of being. So to expect more from a failed Chairho system is the least of their worries. Their main purpose here is to deflect any attempt to change the status quo and educate the taxpayers about the largess and waste in a socialist(RYSE) program funded on the backs of the hardworking taxpayers without accountability.

    Comment by RS — August 16, 2008 @ 1:07 pm | Reply

  52. CP2, you must be new to the blog. My contention has always been that we want the info on RYSE. As we have seen for years, on several fronts, it isn’t provided. Yes, I dislike the model forced upon us (via the no-bid contract), I dislike the fact that RYSE provides services (such as finding someone a job) upon their own direction (with our money) and I oppose the lack of choice for parents. But we can’t even get complete financials – that would be step one.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 16, 2008 @ 1:44 pm | Reply

  53. BF, I think its a simple question, have you or have you not read or received any letters, or had conversations with any parents that claims that RYSE has been a positive experience for their child?

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 6:41 pm | Reply

  54. Yes, CP2. I said that at the time. I also commented that it was not unexpected because it came right after an opposite comment from a parent. That’s the point. When the school was confronted with someone like Elaine Morgan, rather than address the issue and look for solutions, they told her she couldn’t speak at the meeting (because, according to Bill Day – and supported with a vote from Bob – that it didn’t have anything to do with the agenda item. The agenda item was the RYSE service contract and we were discussing why we had a no-bid contract – RYSE was saying it was no-bid because the model was exactly what we wanted – and we had at least one parent that said it wasn’t – but we couldn’t hear from her because the board didn’t want to hear any negatives). Then they paraded out a complementary letter to pretend like nothing was wrong.

    As I said, you must be new to the blog. Its all here. Your going to have to do your own research for now on.

    Why don’t you answer the question – even if it were only one parent (which we know its not) that was not happy at RYSE – do you still believe that that parent must be forced, via financial restrictions, to put their child at RYSE?

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 16, 2008 @ 6:57 pm | Reply

  55. No parent is forced to place their child into a public school. A parent has the option to home school their child, a parent has the option to relocate to another school system, a parent has the option of a private school, which we all know will provide financial aid to families that can not afford tuition.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 9:31 pm | Reply

  56. I have said in the past that perhaps a survey should be done of current parents of RYSE students. I now think it should be expanded to former parents of RYSE students. And it should be done anonymously and performed from an outside agency, so that anonymity is strictly enforced. Perhaps, current and former students should participate in it as well.

    This would protect the identity of parents and students who wish to be anonymous, and it would provide data to taxpayers and concerned citizens regarding the validity of such a controversial program.

    Bob, I would like this to be discussed at a school committee meeting.

    Certainly, we would like to understand whether the needs of these children are being met. We would certainly like to understand the program better. And we certainly respect the privacy of the students and parents.

    Bob, parents are not going to speak out to you or any school committee meeting if the teachers and administrators are present. For fear of backlash, it will not happen. It has to be totally anonymous. As these are not criminal issues, I should think the parents should have all reference of their’s and their children’s names removed from any records or meetings. Put yourself in their shoes. Try meeting them on a one on one basis, if this is even possible. If you can gain their trust, you might be enlightened.

    Comment by Lois Buck — August 16, 2008 @ 9:43 pm | Reply

  57. “”No parent is forced to place their child into a public school. A parent has the option to home school their child, a parent has the option to relocate to another school system, a parent has the option of a private school, which we all know will provide financial aid to families that can not afford tuition.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 16, 2008 @ 9:31 pm””

    But we are still forced to pay for the public school if we choose the above mentioned options. Don’t you think we should be able to take our tax dollars with us to our new choice?

    Comment by RS — August 16, 2008 @ 9:54 pm | Reply

  58. CP#2 You are right, parents have some choice. But, it is not always cut and dry. Some people can’t afford to stay home and home school their children. They have to accept the status quo because of finances. They may not have a home they can use as equity to finance private schools.

    On the issue of special needs, the costs are even greater. The care is not always something a parent can totally provide. Many private schools are very selective of who they accept. It is not an easy process.

    Finances prevent most parents the flexibility to send their kids to different schools. They may want to send their kids elsewhere, but they probably can’t afford it or they do not know how to go about it. Some people may simply not qualify for financial aid. Even partial financial aid may not be enough.

    I wish things could be simple, but they aren’t always. Each person’s situation is unique. It would be nice if there was one simple guide to help these parents. With the mess this state is in, I don’t see it happening real soon. And I’m not sure the district can provide it either.

    Anyways, it is nice to have new participation in the discussion.

    I wish everyone a pleasant evening!

    Comment by Lois Buck — August 16, 2008 @ 10:07 pm | Reply

  59. In the world of those like Mr. Petit, #1, and #2, parents apparently choose to keep their children in failing schools. If picking better schools is simple and moving to a new district or funding private school is doable, then parents failing their children is the only logical conclusion.

    I don’t believe this for a second. Like Mrs. Buck and most others here I realize many families can’t just up and move. They can’t afford private school. Children are left in failing public schools because parents have no choice. This is a demonstrable fact as the few places where tax money is used to provide parents with educational alternatives parents line-up to remove their children from failing schools and programs.

    RS is on target. Claiming parents of RYSE students have any real choice is deflection. I don’t even think the Chariho apologists believe it themselves…maybe it lets them sleep at night to write the lie?

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 12:19 am | Reply

  60. CR, once again you’ve totally misstated my opinions. Go back and re-read what I’ve said before. You’re throwing out more BS and hoping once again it will stick. Ever since I’ve done some research on school choice and school options, I’ve come to the opinion that it’s not the rosey picture you want to paint. It’s not always as successful as you want to make it out to be. Done correctly, it can be a good thing though. I can see how it’s a savings to taxpayers and also can be an environment that some students will be able to succeed much better than in a traditional school setting. I’m very much in favor of the Mayoral Academy as long as the teacher unions are kept out of the picture and it’s allowed to develop they way it is being thought of at the present time. I’ve stated this position a few times in the past. As for your statement that parents line-up their children from failing schools, that’s not quite accurate, it generally falls in the 10% range from the reading I’ve done. That isn’t exactly lining up. The only lines I see are because the schools they choose are limited enrollment so they are put on a wait list. Because of the limited private schools we have here in the state at the present time, only a limited number of parents and students would be able to take advantage of school choice. As for a voucher program, I would like to see how the vouchers would be, would it only be enough to cover part of the tuition for a private school? If that’s the case, then you still have a problem for those who are struggling to make ends meet being able to afford being able to make the balance of the tuition. There’s a lot to still be discussed about amounts, how it’s implemented, etc.

    Chariho does have it’s problems but with people like Lois and Tom Buck who are at least trying to come up with some creative ideas instead of constant bashing we might have a chance of turning things around a bit. Much will depend on taxpayer involvement. When people are constantly attacked they get their dander up, dig in their heels and get defensive. The school committee as a whole needs to hear from many more taxpayers in the district then the few that they probably hear from. When meetings are poorly attended they’ll do what ever they darn well please.

    So, CR, once again, get your facts straight about me. You really do stink out the joint when you try to throw your BS around about others. Stick to the discussion at hand without the attacks on individuals, you’ll paint a better picture of yourself that way.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 6:23 am | Reply

  61. Bill I can’t do anything or say anything until I hear from these people. See I have the other side coming to me and saying that they feel the school and RYSE have not done wrong for them.

    As for your rep. and watching it. Bill you have made some comments in the paste that didn’t please a lot of people, even those that are working with you in your organization. The comments about welfare, you made. So yes at times you say things that hurt your rep. But I am not here to debate that fact.

    When were these problems Bill? Were these issuse with these people back when RYSE first came into the district or recently?

    post #49 from chariho parent 2 is exactly right. Are there a lot of parents that feel this way that have students in RYSE now? If so there is a problem. I hear more parents are happy with it,so it is hard for me to say there is problem.

    RS stick to the conversation, I am not talking about negotiations here. I was tying to answer a question for Lois. I would say this is the path that best be taken. Remeber- what I say here is on my own and does not in anyway represent the school committee as a whole. I can not and will not speak for the school committee.

    This is why I said they need to take this path, because if it comes in front of the whole committee without taking this path first I can’t and won’t say how the rest of the committee would feel. Saying that, NO ONE has taken this course of action since I have been on the committee, so no one can say what would happen. We can all assume and accuse but no one knows.

    Bill comment 54 not true. Yes she was commenting on the fact she didn’t like the RYSE program and since it wasn’t on the agenda and no one but yourself knew she was going to talk about this, we didn’t have anything in our packets to even let us know what the problem was. Not fair to us or Mrs. Morgan. That is why she was stopped from proceeding. She was also told as you were that very night these same words.She could request it be put on the agenda and come back and we would hear what she has to say. This would give time to get the other side of the story together, and yes there was another side to that story. She was a victim that night, but more because of you than anything else, I will stand on that forever. You know the way meetings are ran, you are around enough. And it is not just our meetings either. You put in a request to have it on the agenda and then you can talk about it. This was more a personal attack that night because of what happend in the past, that was were this was going and you know it.

    Lois in comment 56 I couldn’t agree with you more. And if any of these parents are reading this blog I wish you would come forward. I will promise that I would never use someones name in a conversation or speak of anything they request me not to. I have had people come to me with other complaints and have helped them to resolve some issue without the adminisration or teachers even knowing who they are. I agree that the names should not be open to the public. I have had people come to me with compliments and asked me to not bring their names into it in fear of reprecussion from their friends. So it does go both ways. It is sad to say, but when it comes to people being afraid to step forward because of what people think or say then there is a problem.

    read comment #58 from Lois again. This is right on the nail. Some things can be changed, so lets work on those. Lets work on doing better on the education part for the studets at chariho. everyone keeps talking about running somewhere else, the question is where? There are issues at Chariho, like all schools, and those need to be addressed. I am still not convienced that the Math program is going in the right direction to be honest with you. And I would like to see higher grades and better results. I agree that the math program has messed up our youth, not only here but accross the coutry. And I know I will take heat for this comment so let me have it, but I also feel if we need to provide extra teachers or tutors to help them then that is what we need to do. This is how we would help the students and in turn help the school to achieve higher standards.

    We have a high student to teacher ratio from what we hear. Bill our challenge should be to find where some of these extras are and see if we can move them to help those students that need it. I have said it all along, Chariho is not perfect and we can always get better “always” but it takes the district to make it better.

    CR the fact that there are choices out there is not a lie. But to those that feel they have no choice we need to fix what we have. I have been working on this very issue, trying to find areas that are overlapped. Maybe freeing some time in one area so someone can help a child in need in another. Funny I thought that was what I was there to do.

    comment 60 from chariho parent- I agree with the Mayoral school, if it works as I have read then it should be a great option. My fear is that the good teachers will leave once they get time in the field to go to a union job because they can get more money and benefits. I hope this isn’t the case.

    Vouchers I feel the same way and was hammered when I asked some of those questions. I just used a single mother for an example and that was what ended up being the vocal point of the whole conversation. What happens to those that can’t afford the extra expense. Again I agree that there is a lot to be explained about the voucher system. I am not against it I just don’t know enough about it, but I have said this all along also.

    I have written a lot here so I apologize for any misspellinngs I am not the greastest typer or speller for that matter, so I hope you ca excuse me.

    Thank you Lois for your input it has brought to light some new ideas.

    Comment by bob petit — August 17, 2008 @ 9:04 am | Reply

  62. Petit, you are clueless (and barely literate). The only people who don’t like what Felkner has done with welfare are the socialists in the poverty institute. He has done more to fix welfare in RI than anyone in decades – if ever. Did you see his testimony? You can trace every reform we have right back to his proposal. And we expect he will do the same with the runaway union control in this state. I don’t even live in South County but we watch here because what he is doing is reaching across the state. Clearly, you have no idea what you are talking about. Just keep protecting the unions and the administration – its all you’re good at.

    Comment by JS — August 17, 2008 @ 10:24 am | Reply

  63. Choice is a simple concept. Put it out there and let those happy with the status quo stay put and let those looking for better alternatives take the money and run. Costs taxpayers no more and improves outcomes for many children who are doomed to failure with the status quo forced upon them.

    At the very least parents with special needs students should be given choices. These children already have obstacles without our tax money interfering with their potential progress.

    CharihoParent has decided for all families…10% or 100%…that they should remain stuck in schools which don’t meet the needs of their children. Is it about power? Who knows, but it is certainly not about the children as parents are the ones who should have control over the education of their children, not me and definitely not Mr. Petit or #1 or #2.

    Oh, well, we’ll have to fight hard to defeat the latest bond re-vote and keep battling to change things. Either we join the rest of the world or our children and grandchildren will face the consequences. I know I couldn’t live with myself if don’t at least speak up for change. For those of us who recognize the rights of parents and power of individual choice, what other options do we have?

    I’m glad the majority speaking here understand Chariho is a failing institution in almost every way. I pray that my Hopkinton friends and neighbors continue to stand strong.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 10:59 am | Reply

  64. Oh ok BP, please let me know when I can ask my question, sorry I forgot to raise my hand…who made you moderator of the blog anyway. You take liberty with people’s comments just like you do their tax dollars.

    So I’ll take the fact that since the information I seek(contracts before ratification) can’t be obtained and you don’t help the taxpayers to obtain it, then your previous post(#44) about information being available to those who seek it is false, a discredit for your service on the committee, and nothing more than a deflection of the problems.Oh I forgot you were only talking a bout one specific point. I would still like to know why you refuse to allow or talk about contract negotiation transparency. But all is not lost, the NEA and its lackies thank you for helping their cause..lack of transparency and accountability. Come to think of it I don’t think I’ve heard you use those words at all, maybe they aren’t in the playbook given to you by the unions.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 11:20 am | Reply

  65. CR, once again back up what you say with some proof. You have said over and over that it is a failing institution. Simple not true! The only thing that is holding this school system back is the lack of space and updated facilities. You are the one hurting our children. If its such a failing institution then why do all the families that can afford to send their child to a private school send their children to CHARIHO. Not all familes of CHARIHO are below the poverty level. Give me a break.

    LB, I think your survey question regarding RYSE is a great idea. I hope the school committee takes that into consideration. Any new program will have its problems, and this is a great tool to find out how and if it needs to be approved.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 11:33 am | Reply

  66. Except we can’t trust anything that comes from the school. As everyone with a brain knows, surveys are easy to skew with the right words.

    Comment by JS — August 17, 2008 @ 11:40 am | Reply

  67. When nearly 80% of students are below proficient in math, I classify a school system a failure. You may have different criteria.

    Many children reside in homes not big enough and not new or updated. They are not doomed to failure. Claiming children fail because of infrastructure is a ridiculous assertion.

    When fax money goes with the children rather than with the school, parents will then have the option to choose Chariho or choose better alternatives. Families lead busy lives and when you are required to pay thousands and taxes and thousands more for private school, alternative clearly become less attractive. My child does fine in public school is we supplement and tutor. We shouldn’t have to do this, but when weighed against the economic burden of thousands of dollars for private school, we do what we have to do. I’m sure many families are like mine, but given choice they would gladly leave Chariho behind.

    The difference is that I’m willing to give parents the option of taking the money and making their own choices. The Chariho apologists want other people to control the education of our children. I trust parents more than Mr. Petit and his cohorts.

    Voting no on the re-vote will be a great way to send the message once more.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 11:55 am | Reply

  68. Chariho has conducted surveys before and simply ignored the results. Surveys found that Chariho parents overwhelmingly favor 5th and 6th graders in the Elementary School environment. You can see what good that did us.

    They only like survey which deliver the results they wanted in the first place. Why bother?

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 11:58 am | Reply

  69. http://www.eride.ri.gov/reportcard/07/districtReportCard – please review the data.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 12:11 pm | Reply

  70. CR I am assuming your 80% is based on the NECAP scores. Could you please post your website that you got that information and can you also post the state average. I think if you really paint the picture correctly, Again, give the whole story.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 12:20 pm | Reply

  71. I don’t have time to take on the entire state educational system. I remain focused on Chariho’s failures.

    Around 80% of Chariho students were less than proficient in math according to test results. If you have different results feel free to share. I’d be especially interested in how Chariho students compare globally since most of our children will be competing in global market place. Please post any websites with information showing Chariho succeeds on a global basis. Tell the whole story. If you have any universal data, that would be good too. I hear Martian have good schools. Thanks.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

  72. Okay, state average for the NECAP score Level 1 (Substantially Below Proficient)-51 (11th grade 2007 -08 data). Chariho 39 at Level 1.
    Partially Proficient (Level 2) – State Score 27 – Chariho score – 32
    Proficient (Level 3) – State score 21 – Chariho – 27
    Profi cient with Distinction (Level 4)- State 1 – Chariho 2.

    If you do further reseach..you will find that NE states that took the score all had issues with this test for this year.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 12:55 pm | Reply

  73. By the way that took about 2 mins to find that data.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 12:56 pm | Reply

  74. correction.. took the test

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 12:59 pm | Reply

  75. New Hamp State NECAP 2007-08 Math data- Level 1 – Score 45 / Level 2 – Score 28 / Level 3-Score 26 / Level 4 – Score 2

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 1:15 pm | Reply

  76. CharihoParent has decided for all families…10% or 100%…that they should remain stuck in schools which don’t meet the needs of their children. Is it about power? Who knows, but it is certainly not about the children as parents are the ones who should have control over the education of their children, not me and definitely not Mr. Petit or #1 or #2.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 11:55 am

    One again, CR, read exactly what I’ve said, when and IF you can ever do comment what I’ve said, until then shut up about me. You totally misrepresent what I say, what Bob Petit says, what CP#2 says. You’re the consumate spinner and twister. I think you’re a Jim Croce fan, he had a little know song called, “Spin, spin, spin”, you’re real good at it.

    Let me try to say this oncee more for you, CR, it might finally sink into that thick head of yours:

    Ever since I’ve done some research on school choice and school options, I’ve come to the opinion that it’s not the rosey picture you want to paint. It’s not always as successful as you want to make it out to be. Done correctly, it can be a good thing though. I can see how it’s a savings to taxpayers and also can be an environment that some students will be able to succeed much better than in a traditional school setting. I’m very much in favor of the Mayoral Academy as long as the teacher unions are kept out of the picture and it’s allowed to develop they way it is being thought of at the present time. I’ve stated this position a few times in the past.

    My comment about 10% was about your statement that “parents line-up to remove their children from failing schools and programs.” Re-read what I’ve said word for word, all I said was that 10% is not lining up as you would attempt to have some believe. That isn’t a statement whether it’s good or bad, it’s a statement about yourself and your inaccurate statements of facts. Debate the facts up or down, don’t attack, spin and twist. One more time, it takes away from everything else you say. I leaves doubt in my mind, and I’m sure in other people’s minds as well, about what you have to say in regards to everything else.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 2:00 pm | Reply

  77. I will repost this again, since some seem to have “forgotten”

    Pay special attention to Chariho ranking, pages 18 & 28 from the http://www.infoworks.ride.uri.edu/2008/state/infoworks2008-web.pdffollowing report.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 2:05 pm | Reply

  78. http://www.infoworks.ride.uri.edu/2008/state/infoworks2008-web.pdf

    Link should work better.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 2:06 pm | Reply

  79. Why does #2 limit comparisons to the state or New England. Our children need to compete globally. The educational establishment is national and it provides no solace that schools across America are failing children. My focus is on Chariho, but if #2 wants to tackle the issue of failing schools across the region, I support that effort.

    As for #1, still no reasonable or logical response to why parents can’t have choice. Who cares if #1 thinks choice isn’t rosy? Parents should be deciding for their own children…not #1. Not sure why the concept of individual liberty is too complex, but apparently it is.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 2:11 pm | Reply

  80. Looks like to me the proficient rating from the link CP##(whichever one) posted is 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing.

    Great numbers if you ask me, especially in light of the costs we bear as taxpayers for this fine service.

    Reference: http://www.ride.ri.gov/Assessment/DOCS/NECAP/Reports_Results/10.2007_gr.11/Oct.2007_Gr.11_Results_SCHOOL_PercentProficient.pdf

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 2:19 pm | Reply

  81. CR, Where have I said in this thread that parents CAN’T have choice? Did I say that? NO! All I’m saying is that it’s not the rosy picture end all that you portray it to be!

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 2:25 pm | Reply

  82. Probably the comparison on the NECAP is because it is a RI, VT, and NH developed testing method. I didn’t look at VT, just wondering why they were left out of CP’s analysis.
    I agree that we need to complete globally, and at a minimum nationwide. In my line of work, out of 5000 direct peers I compete with for a job, only a half dozen or so reside in RI, I do not know where they were schooled, but the point is 6 out of 5000 people I work with might or might not have been schooled here. So the job competition is a global/nationwide contest.

    Those without pride and drive for achievement do not want to be bothered with the reality of today’s job market and the education required to get a leg up on the competition, only with where and when the next trough feeding will be. They can even wear their blinders because they will be directed to the trough and hand fed.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 2:28 pm | Reply

  83. CR, Where have I said in this thread that parents CAN’T have choice? Did I say that? NO! All I’m saying is that it’s not the rosy picture end all that you portray it to be!

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 2:25 pm

    At least according to the previous post of your using NEA directed studies and documents…remember..its all on the blog, go read again for yourself.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 2:29 pm | Reply

  84. RS I know your smarter than that. You have to look at the average test scores to find out how you are doing in ranking.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 2:29 pm | Reply

  85. RS, another BS’er. You and CR need reading comprehension lessons. Your schools failed both of you, you both probably had union teachers and that’s why you can’t comprehend what is being said.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 2:34 pm | Reply

  86. VT data Level 4 2% / Level 3 – 28% / Level 2 – 28% / Level 1 – 42%

    website: http://education.vermont.gov/new/pdfdoc/pgm_assessment/data/state_results_NECAP.pdf

    Lets look at the whole story people.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 2:41 pm | Reply

  87. For RS:

    Here’s something that I’ve said in this thread:

    “I’m very much in favor of the Mayoral Academy as long as the teacher unions are kept out of the picture and it’s allowed to develop they way it is being thought of at the present time.”

    Is that an NEA position? Heck no, it’s just the opposite of the NEA position. If you can comprehend my posts I’ve said over and over again, I’m anti-union, especially when it comes to government workers. I’m against pay increases based on nothing more than you’re working for the given entity. I’m for pay increases based on your worth to the entity. Now tell me, how is that supportive of any union?

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 2:46 pm | Reply

  88. You mean the averages(ref#84) that are graded on a curve, sure that will hold up in the real world of life, guess what I don’t know what kind of job you have, but mine doesn’t judge on a curve, you either can produce the goods or are out in the cold….that is the real world outside of Gov’t feel good jobs. The report I linked is the state of affairs from the powers to be(same organization you quoted), do with it what you want. Ignore if you will, I remember no comments on it last time I posted, it is hard to dispute the facts though.
    And as for CP, once again resorting to name calling when they can’t step up to the plate.

    If I were an NEA lackey on this thread trying to convince everyone how great we are doing at teaching your kids, I probably wouldn’t admit it either, so you keep saying you aren’t associated with the administration, but until now(mayoral academy) you have been one of the greatest backers of the current status quo system and only try to find fault with any idea of vouchers or other programs. I would rather march with my dollars, than have you tell me where to spend them….I asks again, what is wrong with letting me have my tax dollars, notice I said MINE, not yours…and spend them where I see fit. For some strange reason you don’t want to let anyone make the choice for own family, therfore the NEA loves you wether you like them or not….you are by default their biggest supporter on this blog.

    Plus the link CP2 quoted is not even average scores, they are % of the goal set by the NECAP people, not actual scores…my link shows the % of students not proficient, can’t argue that…not proficient is not proficient period. I know the report I linked is lengthy, but read it before commenting, I read your link, or just continue with the name calling, it’s expected from you quite frankly.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 6:20 pm | Reply

  89. #1 is against unions but condemns Hopkinton to continue to pour money into a school which enriches the union which needs to be starved. Why do the Chariho apologist think Chariho is such a sorry state? The biggest reason is because they’ve been feeding the hogs at the trough. If we vote to give them more, the hogs will get fatter at the expense of children and families. Why would anyone think things would change this time? Saying your against government unions while supporting more government spending is talking out both sides of the mouth.

    Still not sure why anyone would be against parents choosing. Rosy or not, I trust parents to decide for themselves. Too bad other people prefer for Mr. Petit to make decisions for their children.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 6:37 pm | Reply

  90. RS, Let me summarize this for you since you seem to be having difficutly. The NECAP scores are percentages. Percentage of students that are Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, and Level 4. It is not a curve is a %. As you can see CHARIHO 11th did in comparison to RI, VT, and NH about the same and sometimes better. If you want to measure CHARIHO against the state, and other states to see how they are doing you have to look at how they are doing in comparision. Are we above the average percentage, yes. In conclusion, CR claims that CHARIHO is a poor performing school, simple not true. Now, if you want to take it one more step, look at SAT scores, look at graduation rates, look at attendence. Give me something to support your statement that says CHARIHO is a poor performing school. All I am asking is you support it.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 7:02 pm | Reply

  91. Your good at explaining, so explain this report to me I guess I’m a little slow when it comes to all the sharp folks on this blog. Please look at pages 18 & 28, and explain what the % of proficiency is then.

    I guess proficiency is different now than when I went to school.

    The report shows 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing. These are the percentage of students proficient in these areas.

    How do you explain this then.
    I know its tough.
    http://www.infoworks.ride.uri.edu/2008/state/infoworks2008-web.pdf
    “Measuring Rhode Island Schools for Change” is the name of the report. I do not understand how you can refute what it says, but go ahead rationalize away.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 7:24 pm | Reply

  92. “As you can see CHARIHO 11th did in comparison to RI, VT, and NH about the same and sometimes better.”

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

    Ok I see now, if we don’t do any worse than VT, and NH, then we must be doing great…quite a reach for justification of how the Chariho is doing.

    I repeat this is the latest data on proficiency, not how we are doing against 2 other states and only looking at 1 grade level.

    The report shows 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing. These are cold hard facts, not percentages of some number that compares us to another state or 2, but cold hard facts about the levels Chariho students are at. It is sad you can’t realize the seriousness of the lack of performance we get for our money. Unless of course you are a NEA lackey….

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 7:28 pm | Reply

  93. It can’t be rationalized without throwing children overboard. #2 wants us to accept the status quo at Chariho because we may be equally bad at teaching as other schools in New England. If my child gets D’s or F’s, I’m not happy even if every other child in the school get D’s and F’s. This is especially true if I know my child will be competing against other children getting A’s and B’s.

    Chariho is failing. The debate is real about whether failure is acceptable as long as we’re not alone. Sad testament to the state of education in this country when so many people are willing to accept academic failure. Don’t even bother doing any research…they don’t read it…they don’t care. Their only interest is keeping the gravy train rolling.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 7:33 pm | Reply

  94. First of all, VT doesn’t report scores, just averages across grades.

    Secondly, the “levels” put together is the curve.

    Thirdly, “proficiency” means the student scored a 62.5% or better.

    Lastly, last year’s scores were evaluated comparing Chariho to neighborhood towns with accompanying demographics. That data (with links) is here – https://cspf.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/academic-achievement-an-overview/

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 17, 2008 @ 7:44 pm | Reply

  95. I used to do a lot of looking for external information, but I eventually realized the Chariho apologists disregard anything that disagrees with their desire to maintain the status quo at Chariho. Now I usually stick to pointing out their hypocrisy and their lack of honesty.

    That said, here’s a link (they will ignore) which discusses academic comparisons between the U.S. and many other countries. This is dangerous stuff when we are allowing a generation of Americans to waste their academic potential. Chariho being equal to other failing schools is not an excuse and it is not acceptable. Sacrificing children’s futures to secure the employment of adults is very wrong.

    http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 7:49 pm | Reply

  96. Interesting story in the link you posted CR about charter school teachers making more money. So if they can make more money than they currently do, why would teachers not want charter schools as well? Oh I forgot, they would have to actually perform, and there would be competition for the higher paying jobs. Ok, nevermind, they wouldn’t want competition and accountability for their teaching ability.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 8:04 pm | Reply

  97. Bill can we get the 2008 information not the 2006 Comparison. That data is two years old.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 17, 2008 @ 8:40 pm | Reply

  98. Read post #95 and then read the request in post #97….I couldn’t have scripted it any better. Deflection…excuses…anything but honesty and a desire to improve educational outcomes. Straight from the NEA’s list of tactics.

    On Anchor Rising Mr. Felkner referred to the head of Rhode Island NEA as “president” rather that “executive officer”…in typical NEA fashion the guy made this trivial title mistake the lead in his response. Much better to invent a strawman than to try and defend the indefensible.

    The education establishment wants to bog us down in minutae…they have no desire to have a honest conversation because their system does not withstand scrutiny. A house of cards which hopefully will come tumbling down very soon. Rejecting latest reiteration of the bond would be a great step in that direction.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 8:56 pm | Reply

  99. 2008 isn’t out – 2007 came out a month ago or so. Follow the same links and pick the new years. If you want to do the eval, I’ll be happy to post.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 17, 2008 @ 9:05 pm | Reply

  100. Rejecting the bond unfortunatly will not stop the union tactics. Do you really think they care what conditions the schools are in? I’m afraid they don’t. The only thing they care about is raping the taxpayers to make sure the teachers are overpaid despite their poor performance.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 17, 2008 @ 9:15 pm | Reply

  101. But it will keep us from being married(for the life of the bond) to the tax inequities that now exist, and it will send a message to the Chariho administration, they need to finance the maintenance of facilities through the budget, not one time fixes. Of course finanacing through budgeting leaves less at the trough for the feedings. It would be a shame if seconds were not offered at feed time.

    Comment by RS — August 17, 2008 @ 9:36 pm | Reply

  102. Exactly right RS…the hogs know the game and the less money spent on infrastructure in a budget the more slop available to be spent on them. We’ve been paying enough for both employees and infrastructure for years yet they’ve neglected infrastructure as the pigs get fat. Now we must starve the union pigs if they want a decent sty. Reducing staffing by a few dozen should do the trick…for starters.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 17, 2008 @ 10:18 pm | Reply

  103. Mr. Felkner,

    First, I want to apologize for putting you in a situation where you are being attacked because I insisted you print my comment. To all of you who have distorted my purpose, that was not the first time I have written a comment in this blog. I just want the truth to be ‘learned’ about RYSE.

    I understand there are two sides to every ‘story’. But, it is pathetic when the power of the school committee is so strong that you, (the school committee member that had one positive letter about RYSE in her folder), can not be open-minded about the what might be wrong with this program. Initially RYSE was not supposed to be for the “special education” population. It was supposed to be a 24/7 program that helped not only the student, but the families also. I would hope that there are a few positive letters about the services it provided. For example, during holidays, some of the families that were struggling were sent food and presents. I know, at least from the student’s perspective, that it was appreciated. I sincerely hope that at least that part of the program continues.

    As far as the academic aspect at RYSE…there was very little teaching going on. A typical day would involve the students sitting at their desks for 50 minutes and working on assignments that were provided to them by the teachers from the (regualar) middle school or high school. The term “proctors” would be a better description than the term “teachers”. They were following the same curriculum, however, the students were not being taught. Basiclly, they were in study hall all day, if they were not in time out or the 80% room.

    Now, Mr. Petit, when was the last time you walked through the RYSE building, unannounced? Do any of you that support the program have children in the program? Why would you so willingly say you would put your child in RYSE when you don’t know a thing about it? That is very disconcerting to me, as a former employee, (as well as being a parent myself). How can you defend something you know nothing about?

    I had to write something after reading so many comments in this blog that are not seemingly rational. I do not mean to offend anyone, but, we are talking about a population of students that need help and anyone not directly associated with the program have not been accurately informed. Reading comments about “choices” these families have to move out of the district,etc. is ridiculous. You have no idea about the history of many of these students. Yes, they can be provided a choice, but they can not afford the luxury of moving without financial assistance. Studens at this age need structure and guidance. Too much change in their lives creates havoc. Parents need to learn to make decisions that benefit their children. Pay attention to your children’s attitude. If your child hates going to school everyday, something is wrong! If your child has nothing productive to say about their day at school, something is wrong! RYSE is a free ride for most of these students. They are not being challenged academically. I know why the student I spoke about in my last comment quit. That student had a delimna. A “teacher” could not teach him math, because the “teacher” is not a math teacher. This student needed a challenge. The staff at RYSE did not have any experience in teaching this population of students. It was at the expense of students, like this particular one, that these people were allowed to “teach”. It is not the student who fails, it is the teacher that fails to teach the student.

    For the school committee, you are brainwashed. For the parents, vote for people who can think for themselves and remove ‘the source’ who is telling them what to think! Therein lies your problems.

    Once again, Mr. Felkner, please accept my apology for the anguish my comment may have caused you.

    “Texas”

    Comment by Former RYSE employee — August 18, 2008 @ 1:53 am | Reply

  104. RS and CR, if you think that will stop the unions, the administration and the school committtee, you’re sadly mistaken. The teachers, staff and administration will get paid first, maintenance, renovations and new construction will take the back burner. That was evident in the last budget cycle and will remain to be evident in future budgets so conditions at all Chariho schools will continue to degrade. Your solutions are not solutions at all but instead a continuation of the problems that plague Chariho. You will continue to part of the problem, not a part of the solution.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 18, 2008 @ 4:53 am | Reply

  105. Former RYSE employee, I greatly appreciate your letter and would love to further discuss this with you. A few questions, is it true that some of the students that are sent to RYSE, are sent because of behavioural issues. For example, the students did something in their regular classes to break rules and are sent to RYSE vs. suspension? Second, how long were you involved in the RYSE program?

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 18, 2008 @ 7:42 am | Reply

  106. Throwing more slop into the trough is a guarantee that nothing changes at Chariho. No more slop for the hogs.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 18, 2008 @ 8:30 am | Reply

  107. Texas i too would like to discuss the RYSE program more in depth with you. you can email direct b_petit@hotmail.com if you wish. I hope you understand something here.

    1) I am not saying that anyone should move out of the district so they can get more help or a better education.
    2) presents and food to help those that were struggling? I am not against that, but is that any better then helping someone find a job so they won’t struggle?
    3) I am not saying in anyway that this is the greatest program ever. I know, just like the rest of Chariho, this program needs work.

    Do you not feel these students belong in their own district getting this help?

    I don’t totaly disagree with anyone that is saying that Chariho needs work, it is always going to need work. I am one that believes you can aalways get better at whatever you do. Everday is a learning experience. But, I am not for tearing it all apart. I think we need to pull together and fix the problems that we have. There is too much time on the school committee and even on this blog arguing back and forth instead of working on the problems that are in front of us.
    Thank you for posting Texas and I hope to hear from you, so I can hear more of the other side of the story.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 8:58 am | Reply

  108. Schools should not be used to provide families with food, shelter, employment, medical services, or anything else other than education for children. If the community wants to spend taxes on social services for the poor then put the idea before the voters and stop sneaking social services in the backdoor through education spending.

    Mr. Petit doesn’t disagree Chariho needs work but in his two years what has changed? Is turning Chariho into a decent place to educate children a 20 year process? If so, start tearing it down now.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 18, 2008 @ 9:14 am | Reply

  109. We have worked on the math program, we have added some AP classes and upgraded the classrooms so the students have the correct labs to work with, we now have a better way of tracking the books that the students should be supplied with, some of the classes students were sharing books. This wasn’t in place. 26 teaching positions have been eliminated, we are in the process of reviewing the administration and the contracts. We have put more money back into the schools from the surplus then any school committee in the history of Chariho, take a look at the high school if you haven’t all ready. We have had two of the lowest budget increases that this district has seen in many of years. We were able to get in the negotiations a 15% co pay for insurance from the support staff and the administration ( Hopkinton just agreed to 11% with their contract). This is to name a few.

    One big area we failed at (I think) and Mr. Felkner was the one to bring it up (credit to him) was the merrit pay and he can tell you better, the union shot that down before it even took off.

    So yes CR we have work to do,a lot of work and sorry it doesn’t go as fast as you would like, but we are working on things.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 10:19 am | Reply

  110. REF #104….how is wanting vouchers so I can take MY MONEY and walk to where I want to spend it…continuing the problems at chariho? I doubt you will answer the question becuse I have asked 3 times with no answer from anyone. They are very simple questions, nothing tough about them, yet no answer.

    What is wrong with demanding accountability and transparency in our school system? Why would you be against allowing me to take MY MONEY and put it into a school of my choosing for my children…how is this going to affect you? Unless you are feeding at the trough…oink, oink.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 11:26 am | Reply

  111. REF #107

    Bob i think you might be confusing arguing on the school committe, since ther facts don’t support most of what the committee is about, arguing is a good way to deflect the real issue. So call it arguing if you will, but I think you either wear blinders, or are part of the FEEL GOOD BRIGADE. I thinks you might have been duped.

    Still waiting on you to list 3 things the school committe has performed they can be proud of.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 11:31 am | Reply

  112. REF #108

    Your statement is not true if you are in favor of socialist programs, being provided for is exactly what they want. Seems my scorecard(#51) is still right on track. It would be musch simpler if the socialist would admit what they are about, then the rest of the fiscally responsible world would know they will never have a chance of changing their vies, so we could quit wasting time gathering facts for them.

    Speaking of facts, I have yet to hear an explanation about the “Measuring Rhode Island Schools for Change” report(#91). I guess you cant argue with the facts of the report. I’ll post them again.
    The report shows 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing proficiency. How come the administration doesn’t wear this around as a badge of honor? Oh yeh, there is nothing honorable about this level of proficiency or ineffeciency as it really is. I notic how the supporters of the status quo ignore this information, of course we know why.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 11:42 am | Reply

  113. RS, again missing the big picture. If all schools that took this test did poorly, as the results show(please refer to the 2008 data. Explain to me how you can say CHARIHO is a poor school in comparison to other schools. The results indicate that everyone did about the same. This is not that difficult to understand. If Chariho was the only school that did poorly then I would agree with you, but that is not the case. It doesn’t support the argument that CHARIHO is a poor perfoming school. Which is what I was asking you to support. As you know, NECAP is only given in NE, so its hard to compare the results on a national level. SATs, however, do give you a better picture. As we discussed early, SATs for CHARIHO are above national average. Schools are measured in many different aspects. If you or CR are going to say its a poor performing school, then explain why. NECAP results do not support this argument. The results are about the same as other NE schools. Can we do better, yes. Is it the best school in Rhode Island, the answer is no. Is it a poor performing school. NO it is not. The problem I have is with you and some other bloggers is the credibility to your statements.

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 18, 2008 @ 12:01 pm | Reply

  114. ONCE AGAIN, IT IS NOT MY STATEMENT, IT IS FROM THIS REPORT…PAGE 18 & 28. I HAVE PASTED THE CHARIHO INFORMATION FOR YOU SINCE YOU REFUSE TO READ THE REPORT AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE DATA.

    REPEAT………..REPEAT…………….REPEAT……….REPEAT

    This is not any posters data, it comes from the report: “Measuring Rhode Island Schools for Change” by the Rhode Island Department of Education. Report Card for 2008….can’t get any more current until the next report, sorry if it doesn’t show what you would like it to.

    The report shows 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing. These are the percentage of students proficient in these areas.

    http://www.infoworks.ride.uri.edu/2008/state/infoworks2008-web.pdf

    SCHOOLS THAT DID NOT MAKE ADEQUATE YEARLY PROGRESS
    Schools with caution
    Chariho Regional High School, Chariho

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 12:25 pm | Reply

  115. Is anyone else confused by the data or is it just those who refuse to accept the pitiful results?

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 12:27 pm | Reply

  116. REF #113, the NECAP is not all New England schools, only RI, VT, NH. Have you looked at or read the reports posted about NECAP, if so then reread them you missed much information
    SAT’s only measure those who choose to take it, not all students
    The RIDEC report measures all students, no cheery picking, sorry the data is what it is.

    Not that you will read it, but a link for RINECAP.
    http://www.ride.ri.gov/assessment/NECAP.aspx

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 12:32 pm | Reply

  117. CP2 attempts to mount another attack, but skipped my challenge in post #110.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 12:34 pm | Reply

  118. chariho parent 2 dont bother. RS has proven exactly what we have said all along. You give them answers but if they don’t like them they just ask again or in a different way. Look at my last post in answering some of the things this school committee has done and then his post in #111.

    RS I listed some things we have done. I think some of these things we can and should be proud of.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 12:44 pm | Reply

  119. Bob I wish you the best. You are a saint to deal with these people. Its like hitting your head against a wall. I commend you and admire you dedication to this school and I know first hand what a wonderful school CHARIHO is. There is always room for improvement but considering what you people have to deal with its a miracle anything gets accomplished. It is clear to me why some people can not get information from the school committee… its a waste of their time. You can not lead the ignorant you just have to ignore them…

    Comment by Chariho parent #2 — August 18, 2008 @ 1:28 pm | Reply

  120. As expected, when your back is against the wall, name calling again.

    Still no answer to my question post #110.

    It’s amazing the number of posts that have gone by, but no answer to an easy quetion. It is just a matter how how one feels about taxpayers money. I will conclude by saying a non answer is an answer.

    I thinks me smell NEA trolls amongst us….must be close to trough time.

    Hey Bob, if your proud then your proud, there should never be uncertainty in your answer….should be proud is doesn’t sound like your sure, but I’m sure once you consult with your peers at the FEEL GOOD CLUB, they can give you some more pointers for your debate.

    Do you give any credit to the state of the economy, the heavy tax burden on the payers, and the tax insrease cap for the economic gains you take credit for, I think those factors helped you do that task. Even a greedy pig can only stuff so much in his belly while visiting the trough. I think some of the gains made at the state executive level(Gov) has had a positive effect on the way the unions have treated the taxpayers for as long as most can remember. The 26 positions claimed to be eliminated, were any of them through attrition, and were they all full time pensionable positions? Were some taken as retirment? Just curious.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 1:45 pm | Reply

  121. STILL NO COMMENTS ON THE FOLLWING FACTS: EXCEPT TO STATE CHARIHO IS WONDERFUL

    Pass the kool-aid please, I never knew a 71% non proficient rate is wonderful, but then again my standard is not what I take from the trough, but what I get for a return on my investment(taxes). In this case 2/3 of students are lacking math skills. No wonder the service workers can’t make change these days.

    PATHETIC

    The report shows 71%-reading, 29%-math, and 48%-writing. These are the percentage of students proficient in these areas.

    http://www.infoworks.ride.uri.edu/2008/state/infoworks2008-web.pdf

    SCHOOLS THAT DID NOT MAKE ADEQUATE YEARLY PROGRESS
    Schools with caution
    Chariho Regional High School, Chariho

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 1:50 pm | Reply

  122. RS I beleive that there are some people looking into the voucher system in Hopkinton. Bill am i correct that a subcommittee was setup to gather some information on this? As far as I know RS Hopkinton hasn’t agreed to vouchers yet so what answers are you looking for? Both Chariho parent 2 and myself both said that we aren’t going to say that we are against vouchers. I know I am waiting to hear what information is presented back to all of us before I comment one way or another.

    When they come back with their research and present this information you might be able to take your money were ever you want.

    RS I am proud of what we have done (PERIOD) is that better. a question was asked and answered and now it is becasue of what the state does and not us. I don’t look for a pat on the back from you or CR it is obvious that there is more to not liking Chariho than what is spoken. I beleive I have answered the questions I have been asked to the best of my ablity sorry if you don’t like them.

    Does it matter if the retired, were fired, laid off or just left. There are 26 less positions to pay for out of the budget. We could have very easily turned and hired people to fill every position that was vacant. But to answer your question it was a little of everything.

    And to finish, does it matter what the reason is why we didn’t have higher budgets the last couple of years? Believe it or not we could have put it right to the cap and guess what, if two out of the three towns voted for it you would have had to pay it. So yes we did our work in keeping it lower.

    And yes thank you, I DO FEEL GOOD! becasue at the very least I try to make a difference.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 2:45 pm | Reply

  123. “Does it matter if the retired, were fired, laid off or just left. There are 26 less positions to pay for out of the budget. We could have very easily turned and hired people to fill every position that was vacant.”

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 2:45 pm

    Of course it matters when you claim responsibility for the reduction, if you(committee) truly are responsible, then many thanks from me are in order. I do not trust information without verifying it first, especially in a forum such as this. Notice I post many references with my data, not just heresay.
    If the positions would have been gone anyway, then no the school committee has nothing to blow your horn over.
    Why would the information not be presented anyway, when I asked for it, I get another question from you. This is the transparency we are talking about, it just ain’t there brother, so don’t toot your horn too loud until both sides of the stroy are out….where have I heard that before.

    Wether Hopkinton is looking at vouchers or not, or wether we ever have a sytem of vouchers in place, has no bearing on the answer to a simple question. We seem to have a hard time following on to questions here for some reason. I will post it again, but seperately to avoid confusion.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 2:55 pm | Reply

  124. QUESTION FOR THE CP’S AND BP AND ALL WHO CARE TO ANSWER:

    What is wrong with demanding accountability and transparency in our school system? Why would you be against allowing me to take MY MONEY(taxes) and put it into a school of my choosing for my children…how is this going to affect you?

    I can’t post the question any simpler.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 3:04 pm | Reply

  125. I don’t have time to address all the “successes” Mr. Petit is proud…but since Chariho continues to adequately educate many children, there haven’t been nearly enough.

    RS, you and I know there doesn’t have to be any research done on school choice by anyone who embraces individual liberty. How complicated is it to say you support parents making the educational decisions, not politicians?

    Somethings do need to be legitimately researched, but when a person’s response to school choice uses rhetoric about “research”….we know where the debate is going…and it isn’t anyplace good for families.

    “Researching” individual liberty is the stuff of socialists…not Americans. I’m not sure what happened over the last 200 years but it is hard to believe what has happened to the American spirit of individualism.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 18, 2008 @ 3:46 pm | Reply

  126. Should have been INadequately educate many children.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 18, 2008 @ 3:47 pm | Reply

  127. RS who said I was against it?????? I can’t get any simpiler…..Nothing wrong with asking for accountablity or transparency no one ever said there was.

    Again I am not here to toot my horn as you say. i try to answer questions the best I can but no question I answer is good enough. So from what I am being told bascially is that I am wasting my time here. Well I tried.

    Comment by Bob Petit — August 18, 2008 @ 5:08 pm | Reply

  128. I’m hesitant to make a correction on anything in the midst of the storm of vituperation presently taking place here, but I believe Mr. Petit mis-spoke in his comment #122 concerning the budget cap.

    Referring to the the Chariho budget, he wrote “Believe it or not we could have put it right to the cap and guess what, if two out of the three towns voted for it you would have had to pay it.”

    Actually, the budget is approved or rejected on the basis of the District-wide vote in the District regardless of what Town the vote was cast. I believe Mr. Petit is confusing the rules for passing the District annual budget with the rules for approving the issuance of Chariho bonds. In the case of a Chariho bond, a majority of those voting in each Town must approve its issuance; rejection by any Town means the bond cannot be issued.

    I am not arguing the merit or lack thereof of anything, and this is not a criticism of Mr. Petit for not knowing this. In all likelihood, as I suggested, he mis-spoke himself.

    We all do that from time-to-time, and at the risk of becoming the target of some of the unproductive insulting that goes on in some of the postings here, I would like to offer the thought that everybody would benefit if personal comments about those we disagree with were knocked off.

    Really, what’s the point? We all have those impulses, The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to write down the insult, which probably makes you feel better, and then delete it, which makes most everybody else feel better. Try it sometime.

    Comment by Thurman Silks — August 18, 2008 @ 5:29 pm | Reply

  129. REF# 110, Huh? That had nothing to do with vouchers. That was in response to comments made about unions and the bond vote. RS, you have failed reading comprehension 101 again.

    If you want vouchers though, I believe that’s a Hopkinton Town Council issue, not a Chariho School Committee issue since the money would be coming from the town and not the school district. If that’s what you want from your town, go for it. So far though, other than BF bringing it up at a recent Town Council meeting, Hopkinton has been fairly quiet on it.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 18, 2008 @ 6:12 pm | Reply

  130. REF #120 – RS, you dare to make that statement about name calling? I guess your back and CR’s backs up against the wall frequently since both of you constantly resort name calling.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 18, 2008 @ 6:18 pm | Reply

  131. REF #124 – I answered the part about vouchers in #129. If you want it, go for it. As for transparency and accounabilty, I’m all for that, too. No one has said that they are against it. The more transparency we have, the better off we all will be. The problems lies in that the unions fight against us on the transparency issue. They want negotiations held behind closed doors and not allow us to see anything until after contracts have been ratified. What can the school committee do if the law does not provide for what we demand?

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 18, 2008 @ 6:29 pm | Reply

  132. REF 131….You are so wrong, the law does not stop the contracts from being released. This has been discussed here already. The school committee is not open to the idea of the taxpayers knowing wht is in a contract until it has been ratified. Hopefully BF will chime in, he has more correct info on this than I.

    Nobody has yet to tell me what is wrong with me taking my money and choosing where to educate my children. The vehicle by which to do this is constantly attacked, vouchers are but one of many ways to let a parent choose where and by whom to educate their children. So I ask again:

    Why would you be against allowing me to take MY MONEY(taxes) and put it into a school of my choosing for my children…how is this going to affect you?

    Spouting it is a Hopkinton town issue doesn’t answer what is wrong with this view. Granted we can debate the particular vehicle used to achieve this, but as of yet I haven’t heard anyone say nothing is wrong with a person being able to dictate where there children are schooled, and taking their tax dollars with them is ok.

    Of course the people who have something to fear and lose will never admit this is a great idea, or condone such activity. Who has something to fear you ask, the NEA and its lackies. So I stand by my statements, if you are so adamant against personal responsibility when it comes to educating your own children, you are either part of the FEEL GOOD BRIGADE, an NEA lackey, or you think it is the governments role to take care of us all. If this category fits you, then so be it, its your right to have the beliefs you do. Just admit what your beliefs are and quit hiding behind all the BS, like Chariho is great, vouchers are bad, were just misunderstood, etc, etc. It’s not only sickening is pathetic. Get a spine.

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 8:15 pm | Reply

  133. Pevious post on contract transparency. Where was our school committee, looking out for us(taxpayers)?

    https://cspf.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/transparency-in-contract-negotiations/

    PS..Notic CP’s contribution to the posts…very constructive and informative.

    Also a Projo article.
    http://www.projo.com/news/content/UNION_CONTRACTS_03-05-08_3K98LQA_v18.33becc2.html

    Comment by RS — August 18, 2008 @ 10:08 pm | Reply

  134. The law does NOT require closed meetings for negotiations. As a matter of fact, they used to be open until the 1960’s when unions started to acquire considerable power.
    It’s simply an agreement made between the school and the union. Of course, as we saw in the last negotiations, the unions broke that confidentiality (which is fine by me).

    The biggest hypocrisy to me is that the unions must get approval from the membership before ratification but the public doesn’t get that right. The public doesn’t even get to see any information until its all done. Doesn’t seem quite fair does it?

    But let’s give the sub committee a chance – maybe they will actually make some real reforms.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 18, 2008 @ 11:36 pm | Reply

  135. Getting caught up regarding your discussion. Interesting stuff. Have a lot to say, but not much time.

    Just to answer some questions about the survey, it is my opinion that it should be done outside of the district. I stated this in a previous post. The results should be posted publically for all to see. Taxpayers have a right to know. I do not believe the other surveys were ever published until Mr. F did so here. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Yes, surveys tend to be neglected by the administration. They may never have been if they have been communicated to the public.

    The Charlestown Educational Ad Hoc committee of a few years ago suggested a course of action, which was the initial bond, strictly the high school. Then someone decided to increase the bond to include the additions to the middle school and RYSE. How this was communicated to the general public is beyond me. I will only say I wish I had known.

    My point is this, the results need to be made public. Posted on each of the council websites and on the school websites, as they are published. Perhaps, when the district publishes the once a year paper on school progress, they could post results like this there. Then we as taxpayers, citizens, parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc… can make an informed decision about RYSE, DEFINITELY BEFORE THIS BOND VOTE. In the past, the results have remained with the insiders. Transparency is the key here.

    I truly believe that you should meet with these parents Bob. I hope that Hopkinton’s current and former RYSE parents and students reading this blog will meet with you.

    Bob has nothing to gain by reporting who you are, but a lot to lose if he was to give out your name. A LOT TO LOSE

    I’ve heard stories about RYSE. I am deeply concerned.

    I have also heard stories about state agencies. They have issues, too.

    Personally, I would like to see RYSE succeed, under complete transparency, as this would prevent the nightmarish stories regarding other government agencies that I have heard about. I believe RYSE has great potential, but it has a long way to go.

    How it began is water under the bridge. It is here. We just have to now decide if it is all its cracked up to be.

    Is it fulfilling its original mission? What are the children learning? What qualifies a child for RYSE? Is it behavioral? Is RYSE cost effective? Does it allow for parental choice? How transparent is it? Can a school committee member or parent go in for an unannounced visit? What safeguards are there to protect the rights of the child? What is the curriculum? Are they making adequate yearly progress? What is their (the students) schedule like?

    What it is doing to prepare current students to live in the real world now is most important. Looking to past failures and progress can only teach us how to make it better. That’s why past RYSE students should be included in the survey, just like a SALT survey. Past and current employees should be consulted as well.

    This is not a witch hunt.

    I truly believe that if Mr. Petit gets both sides of the story, his viewpoint will change.

    But, Bob, don’t expect these people to want their names published, especially current students and parents. Others may fear retribution from neighbors or friends. They may fear future employment. Positives are easy to point out. Retribution is at a minimum there. Negatives are a whole different ball game. Perhaps, this is why you only hear one side of the story. Perhaps, you haven’t earned their trust yet. It is not too late.

    I am open to posting everything out there about RYSE, even if it means people could possibly line up at the polls to vote it in. Transparency is important, no matter what the outcome.

    BUT, I stand my ground on the need to take care of the 5th and 6th grades first. Then there will be no need to build a $4 million facility.

    Comment by Lois Buck — August 19, 2008 @ 12:14 am | Reply

  136. REF #132 – RS, here we go again with your reading comprehension problem once again, maybe it’s AAD or are you old and can’t read very well without glasses on. Bob Petit and I have said that there’s nothing wrong with you choosing your own school. How this accomplished IS mostly some sort of voucher system. If that’s what you want to do, don’t just sit at the computer and write on the blog about it. Get off your lazy butt and fight for it.

    Ref – #133 – What’s your point mentioning me? I said I, for the most, agreed with BF. I just don’t believe that when you’re a member of a public body such as a school committee being combative gets your very far. How far did it get the school committee member in North Kingston? How far did it get Mr. Matson in your very own town? How far has it gotten Mr. Mageau in Charleston? None can claim to have accomplished very much by being combative as part of the particular public body they served on.

    One more thing, OK, I made a mistake, it’s not law but the unions certainly do go to the courts if you try to bring the negotiations out into the public eye before the contracts are ratified. BF, you’re correct, it hardly seems fair the union members get to see the contract before ratification but the taxpayers, the ones actually paying the wages and benefits, are shut out all everything is signed.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 4:59 am | Reply

  137. RS, I was thinking about what you said as I was driving into work this morning about taking your money(taxes)and chosing your own school for your children. Since you keep saying your tax money, wouldn’t you actually be paying out much more for education then? I know that’s your right as a parent to decide but I can see where many parents simply could not afford to do this. Since you keep saying your taxes, given the current structure for Chariho wouldn’t that be in the neighborhood of $3500 to $4000? If it was an equalized taxing district, then your tax money would be in the neighborhood of $2500 to $3000. This still wouldn’t be enough for most parents to be able to afford a different school of their own choosing, hence, I would think some sort of voucher system would be much better for them, I’m still not convinced though that a lot of parents (your words of “lining up”) would be able to take advantage of it due to economic difficulties. I’d prefer to see something that would allow those finacially strapped to also be able to take advantage of such a program.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 8:06 am | Reply

  138. REF #137….Well lets see, tax bill in hand. School is 10.93, Municipal 3.57, overall 14.5.

    So that makes my school contribution from my 2008 tax bill in excess of the amounts you listed.

    Notice this does not include the portion of the taxes the state puts in, or the federal monies which I pay into through my state/federal income tax. I noticed how you only wanted to include the property tax, not the statefederal income tax. Gotta count the whole enchilada baby when your talking taxesand school expenditures, cuz I sure pay them.

    The amount of expenditure per pupil is a number attatched to each child wether the parent pay a penny in tax or $5000 in taxes. So the financially strapped as you call them(is this lower income or poor fiscal planners – I don’t know) would still have the ssme benefit as everyone else.
    To make you happy, I will rephrase my statement.

    What is wrong with taking my per pupil allotment(tax dollars) and spending it in a school of my choice for my childs education, how would this affect you?

    And to anser the question, my student still might be enrolled in Chariho, because Chariho would need to correct its ways or would be substantially altered by the withdrawl of students(money). So there is no guarantee that any other school would perform better than Chariho could. In Chariho’s given state though, it nothing more than a train wreck, with the NEA at the helm.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 9:34 am | Reply

  139. Ref – #133 – What’s your point mentioning me?
    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 8:06 am

    All I gleaned from the post is your fixation on people not entering link correctly(akin to name calling like you did again in #136)….who cares, not all are computer savy. Copying and pasting a link is an easy task, at least they provided a reference.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 9:37 am | Reply

  140. Ref #129 – RS, you post is not even worth commenting on since it’s not even perinent to the topic at hand. Stick to the issues, you’ll be better off.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 11:36 am | Reply

  141. My mistake, Ref #139, not #129

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 11:39 am | Reply

  142. REf #138 – RS, how could anyone even figure what portion of your federal or state taxes goes back into Chariho? That would be one heck of a difficult number to come up with. Before I answer your question about total allotment let me ask the following (even though I know you’ll discount the question), why should a person get back more than what they put in? Sounds like that socialist mentality to me, I put in a little and get back a lot.

    I don’t discount what you’ve about the train wreck either, especially with the NEA running the show! When the unions run businesses that would be the tail wagging the dog. No union has any right to dictate how any business will operate. Public or private.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 11:57 am | Reply

  143. Texas,
    Don’t take responsibility for these comments. Not your fault.

    As for the mission – it’s certainly well intentioned, but not a mission I believe belongs at the school. WHile I have moral-based reasons, simple efficiency would be a good enough reason. We spend $65,000 per student at RYSE – imagine what a church could do with those resources. I just think those type of supports are better administered from other avenues.

    Letting the market dictate where revenues go also allows society to have input on the moral ethics provided with the charity. As an example, I contribute to groups that provided after school programs that included lessons of abstinence. Other people might want to support groups that teach “comprehensive sex-ed.” A market model will ensure that society’s values are passed on. If it is done through a government entity those values are dictated by elites in an office (under pressure from special interest groups).

    And someone else asked about students with behavioral problems. Yes, when a student has been suspended beyond the 10 days we are allowed to remove them from the school, we place them at RYSE.

    Comment by Bill Felkner — August 19, 2008 @ 12:17 pm | Reply

  144. I tried to make the question as simple as I could for you. Speaking in general terms, without delving into the specifics of how to accomplish a given task, I wanted to know what is wrong with allowing a parent to choose where to send their children for an education, and what is wrong with allowing them to use the money they paid for that service, whatever the amount may be. The amount is not relevant, the concept of allowing a parent to choose for the well being of their childs education without government interference is the bottom line of the question.
    Instead of saying wether you are pro government telling you where, how, and when to educate your children, I firmly believe the parent is responsible for the decision, and should not have to pay into the goverment program unless they choose that program.

    This is the simple answer to the question, I will make it multiple choice for since you can’t seem to handle a fill in the blank question.

    1.I like the government dictating where/when my children are educated.
    2. I take the responsibility of ensuring my childs education and determining where to spend my educational dollars.

    It’s easy folks, pick 1 or 2.

    Where do you stand.
    All the other BS crap you are throwing out deflects the question I want to ask of you.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 2:53 pm | Reply

  145. I’ll make it easy and go first.

    MY CHOICE IS ANSWER 2 TWO……next.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 2:53 pm | Reply

  146. Answering post #142, I would never expect to get bakc more than I put in, never said I expect it. You were the one worried about someone not being able to make up the difference(post #137), I am not worried about the income redistribution schemes, just give me what I pay to Chariho let me educate my child the way I see fit and you can do the same.

    We have already provide every person in this country with a free education, and look where that program has ended up(Oh I forgot you are in love with Chariho). So why would I want to support another income redistibution scheme so you can live in a utopia that will still have the same crappy government screwball results. If you want every person to have an alternative to the government pork of the public school system, then lets band together brother and get rid of the public school system, and we can all march with our dollars.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 3:01 pm | Reply

  147. “REf #138 – RS, how could anyone even figure what portion of your federal or state taxes goes back into Chariho?”
    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 11:57 am

    CP, you can’t determine this number because we do not have transparency in government, exactly what we have been trying to get across to you folks, and even if we did have the necessary transparency, the fact that the income redistribution–i mean tax system– is government run, by government employees, means one would probably never be able to find all the relevant information needed to make a determination of this number. Too bad I can’t run my budget and household finances in such a manner. I can tell you exactly what I paid for taxes, but you are right, I cannot tell you the breakdown of where this money goes once it leave my hands.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 3:13 pm | Reply

  148. Ref #144 – RS, Since you seem to of simple mind I’ll give you your requested number, #2. Now tell me where I’ve said anything differently. I have certain questions as to how the money is figured out, that’s all I’ve said, I believe that’s all that Bob Petit as said as well. When are you signing up for reading comprehension 101?

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 6:08 pm | Reply

  149. ref #147 – RS, re-read my post #131. What did I say about transparency? I also totally agree with you that because so much is government run, we can never get the true answer to so many of our questions about where our money is spent. I’m all for getting the government out of my wallet. You won’t get any arguement from me on that one.

    Now that I’ve gone back and wasn’t rushing through your post #138 and reading the clarification in post #146, I believe I now understand what you asked, I took what you said as per pupil allotment as what is paid for your child(ren) to Chariho. I now understand it as what you pay per student. Correct me if I’m wrong without any barbs. Like I said before, if that’s what you desire then go for it, get a plan of action and be a leader for that cause.

    Comment by CharihoParent — August 19, 2008 @ 6:27 pm | Reply

  150. Sorry to say BF has tried to push the cause for accountability and transparency, and giving some of the money back to the taxpayers. He has met resistance at every turn. I doubt I could do any more than he has, but rest assured when election time comes, I will cast my vote accordingly and be very vocal about who is for transparency, accountability, honesty, integrity and looking out for the taxpayer and not the status quo.

    I will spend some of my time trying to effectuate change, but either way my children will receive a quality education. Wether that is at Chariho remains to be seen. I didn’t wait until my child is ready for school to look at the state of the school and be a witness to the train wreck I find before me. My children are only 2yr, 1mos, and 1mos, so I feel I have some time to try and affect change, that being said, I will not throw good money(my time) after bad money(the stonewalling of the FEEL GOOD BRIGADE)which has been witnessed time and time again by BF’s efforts snubbed. Before you attack him about his style or tact(as a reason for the stonewalling), understand he seems to have much more patience for tax and spend, feel good government programs, and the people who support them than I do. Most of my efforts are spent at the state house in an effort to bring about change, maybe I will see you there sometime. There are plenty of FEEL GOOD BROTHERS running around the halls, so the folks who like big government programs and secret union backroom deals would feel right at home.

    Comment by RS — August 19, 2008 @ 7:42 pm | Reply

  151. In response to questions about the RYSE environment; I know that the students that are sent to RYSE are there because the “regular” teacher did not want to deal, or know how to deal, with a student that is disruptive. I substituted in the “regular” classrooms at Chariho. I can tell everyone, without a doubt, that the behavior I saw in those classes, as well as witnessed by observing other classes is no different than what occurs at RYSE. The difference! The students who are transferred to RYSE have someone watching their every move, constantly.

    If they bent over to pick up a pencil, they were sent to a time out. (This is what I refer to as inexperienced staff.) The moment a regular teacher turns their back to the class, notes are exchanged, students start to talk, and yes, even pencils are dropped, however, these students know they can get away with it without having to face consequences.

    Yet, at RYSE, there are consequences for ‘normal’ behavior. The students were expected to sit in a classroom and not talk, or move until they were allowed. Imagine, students that were sent to a program created for students with behavioral problems were expected to sit at a desk for hours and do assignments without interacting with their peers and could only ask the ‘teacher‘ questions if they did not understand their assignment. If they ‘earned their points’ (translate that into life in the real world), they were given restricted free time.

    Would you want to attend school everyday wandering if you could get through the day without doing something that would be misconstrued by a member of the staff and are not allowed to explain, then be escorted out of the classroom into a time out room. How frustrating that must be for them!! You must know how it feels to be blamed for something you didn’t do. I do!

    The ‘time out’ rooms are there for the students to reflect on what they did to earn a time out. The student is not allowed to talk. The BMA determines when the student is ready to return to class. However, the student can not return to class without completing a time out form…correctly(?) Correctly is a relative term. Students became aggravated because when they tried to tell the truth on the form and the BMA did not agree, the student would have to start another time out form until they wrote down what they were expected to say. Someone explain to me how a student, with behavioral issues, can be taken to a room and be expected to “reflect” on their behavior, then forced into lying, but realizing they would not be released from time out without writing down what ever was necessary to get out. What do you think about that example of a role model for your children? Student’s became a “special ed“ student, out of mere frustration! The time out room is a subliminal negative stimulant. It intensifies the situation and the student becomes aggravated. (Wouldn’t the words, “gets aggravated easily”, be appropriate on a special ed form?)

    Do not discount the intelligence and ability of these students. It is sad that they are thrown from one environment into another where their talent and skills will not be realized. It is demeaning for a student to be transferred to RYSE in the middle of the school year. The parents are lured in with what is referred to as a “45 day evaluation period”. There is the hook. After the parent signs the consent form to transfer their child into a “special ed” program to be evaluated (?) it is impossible for the student to return to the mainstream, with all their peers. I know several students who purposely acted out, just so they would be kicked out of RYSE.

    Mr. Petit, forgive me, but I will only talk with you and answer your questions on this blog. After all, I have nothing to hide, but I do have so much to share. I want to get the truth out about RYSE and to encourage parents to stand up for their children. I want parents to understand that they are paying the salaries of these administrators and teachers and programs that are more harmful to their children than helpful. You talk about your budget…why not start at the top, that is where all the money is going! Why not make them accountable? Why don’t they serve as examples for the district, and “for the good of all the students” cut their salaries by a third, (Rich-E)? How long do you think they would stick around if they weren’t eating steak every night? Are they thinking of the students at Chariho and the conditions of the schools when they sit down to a good meal? No.

    To answer the other question, I was with RYSE since they started. However, I was told I was not tough enough with the students. I choose to listen to them instead of throwing them out of class. I wanted the student in the classroom instead of spending their academic time in a hole in the wall. How else would they learn proper behavior?

    These are typical students that have tough home lives. They acted out sometimes because they craved attention, they wanted someone to care. Students were told by an employee of Psychological Centers that they would not hold their hands or sugar coat everything the way I did. I listened to this same person, an employee of Psychological Centers, the organization that is the foundation of the RYSE program, tell particular students to their face that they were punks and lazy. Another example of a good role model! These students need encouragement and respect. I would not classify that as sugar coating for an adolescent / teenager.

    I have told you the truth. I have no need to lie. The situations I chose to disclose from days in RYSE were middle-of-the-road examples. Now, imagine your child in this environment; does this sound like a program that will be beneficial to his / her future?

    Do not vote for the bond. Wait until you elect an organized, caring and intelligent group of individuals for your new school committee and elect a leader, not someone who never contributes anything to your committee meetings, and never has answers for questions. (I wonder what he does all day). Hopefully the individual you elect will be a member of your community, that will pay the same taxes you are paying. I think the comments on this blog, may become more agreeable and you ’authors’ that are regulars, may find it takes a strong, sincere leader to end all the bickering. You comprise three communities that complement each other. Serve as examples for your children. Show them how to be good citizens and show them how much you care for them. You obviously do.

    “Texas”

    Comment by Former RYSE employee — August 20, 2008 @ 12:36 am | Reply

  152. Texas brings up a point that is very telling to me. Chariho apologists can’t wait to hide behind one-on-one conversations. Why not discuss these issues in public?

    To my knowledge Mr. Felkner never asked someone to contact him personally rather than discuss issues here…I haven’t seen it from Mrs. Capalbo or Mr. Abbott either.

    Chariho apologists default to secrecy. No wonder they can’t run Chariho transparently and honestly.

    Comment by Curious Resident — August 20, 2008 @ 4:46 pm | Reply

  153. I have established my own blog. This particular blog is too busy. If anyone has questions I will be glad to answer them on my blog, fiestavee, a blog on WordPress.com.

    “Texas”

    Comment by fiestavee — August 27, 2008 @ 8:20 pm | Reply

  154. Let me put an end to the attacks at BF about the RYSE program. If an ex-student and an ex-employee are trying to expose the reality of the RYSE program, it is the same as a student coming home and complaining and the parent believeing RYSE and not their child. If there are parent’s that think RYSE is improving the quality of life for these students, let them think that. I happen to respect a student’s opinion and take it seriously. If their child is having a good time at RYSE, they are not getting an education; they are with their friends and play games with the staff. They do not respect these ‘teachers’ because the teachers go by the book. They do not engage students in academics. These instructors are robots. But I would bet Ricci’s salary that they are having a great time irritating the BMA’s and the highlight of their day is sleeping in the time-out rooms. It is a joke. RYSE is recess for those students whose parent’s are happy with the program, only because their child comes home with a smile on their face and their parents do not have to deal with a student that shows signs that something is wrong. If you do not believe me, then don’t get all over BF about allowing my comments to be part of a ‘democratic’ blog.

    Comment by formerbma — October 7, 2009 @ 6:00 pm | Reply

  155. i agree with all of the negative things they say about RYSE. it had to have been one of the WORST schools i went to! yes i am a former student from there and thankfully i survived, but just barely! the major problem with me was that i was in the wrong program, it had 2 the clinical day and ALP. i was in clinical day, it did not help me at all, the so called clinicians were worthless and useless, i felt emotionally berated everyday by staff and students and had quite a few breakdowns. to me the clinical day program ( many people just simply call RYSE) was a terible program that did not help anyone and focused way too much on discipline even the kids who didnt deserve it. the other program ALP was a little bit better beacuse it’s focus was more on learning and actually helping the students. please whatever you do dont put your child in RYSE!!! If they are already in GET THEM OUT! please what everyone says is true, make a good choice!

    Comment by someone — February 17, 2011 @ 3:50 pm | Reply

  156. RE:155 I am glad you managed to get out of RYSE. My son is currently a student there and he is completely stressed out with how things are handled there at the school. I am going to seek out an advocate and try and get some help. This waste of time and precious childhood has over run its course with me and i’ve had enough. Good luck to you.

    RYSE Parent

    Comment by amy — March 13, 2012 @ 4:17 pm | Reply


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