Chariho School Parents’ Forum

July 23, 2009

figuring it out

Filed under: contract negotiations,Police,Unions — Editor @ 8:27 pm

Lois Buck is a very brave person. Tom, her husband, HTC prez, and a friend, crafted the police contract with DeLibero and she has been defending him here courageously, especially considering the overall tenor of people who post comments here. (Tom is not a internet user)

Everything I talk about here I’ve spoken with Tom personally, as well as most of the council, so there are no secrets. And to a person (sans Bev who I haven’t spoken much about these things) I believe they know that the perfect world would be where public sector workers are paid the same as private sector – no better, no worse. And we can all agree it used to be much worse for the public labor, but now it is much better – the pendulum has swung to apex.

Lois, Tom et. al., disagree with me that drastic change can occur quickly and support incremental changes. I say we can’t afford those anymore because the decisions we make today,  such as the pensions, lock us into unreasonable costs that we wont be able to afford in the future – when they come due.

But Lois’ inquisition brings out the best in my neuroses. She was not comfortable with my admittedly gross estimates. So, I am compelled to provide such proof as asked.

But we have to make some estimates. So how about this:

The payroll I got from the town hall had a typo (linked int he first pension post below). What was listed as “other longevity” is the clothing allowance.  Longevity is built into the salary so I don’t know what last years base was. But I do have a list of the employees and what year of service they are in. I can apply the pay according to the rank and year.

That gives us this grid for the first two years of the contract (which is what I happened to have on a spreadsheet now but can add the rest when I get to the office but I doubt it will change it much).

Calculated Hourly   Jul-09   Jul-10   Jul-11   2yr raise total
Name/Badge yrs hourly 37.5X52            
Ch. Scuncio 1 11 $43.29 $84,419.75 $44.16 $86,108.15 $45.48 $88,691.39 *1 5.1%
Patton 9 9 $29.83 $58,168.50 31.16 $60,762.00 32.09 $62,575.50 *4 7.6%
Ahearn 6 5 $27.71 $54,034.50 28.26 $55,107.00 29.11 $56,764.50 *5 5.1%
Cole 17 7 $27.71 $54,034.50 28.26 $55,107.00 29.11 $56,764.50 *7 5.1%
Dufault 18 7 $21.14 $41,223.00 21.56 $42,042.00 22.21 $43,309.50 *8 5.1%
Kenyon 10 7 $27.71 $54,034.50 28.26 $55,107.00 29.11 $56,764.50 *10 5.1%
Nutting 16 1 $21.14 $41,223.00 24.21 $47,209.50 26.49 $51,655.50 *11 25.3%
Percivil 11 5 $27.71 $54,034.50 28.26 $55,107.00 29.11 $56,764.50 *12 5.1%
Quartella 15 11 $30.54 $59,553.00 31.15 $60,742.50 32.09 $62,575.50 *13 5.1%
Whewell 8 8 $27.71 $54,034.50 28.26 $55,107.00 31.34 $61,113.00 *14 13.1%
Forbes 14 1 $21.14 $41,223.00 24.21 $47,209.50 26.49 $51,655.50 *11 25.3%
Sgt. Lyman  5 19 $33.09 $64,525.50 33.09 $64,525.50 36.19 $70,570.50 *3 9.4%
Det. Macdonald 7 20 $31.25 $60,937.50 32.6 $63,570.00 33.58 $65,481.00 *15 7.5%
Altimari 12  20 $31.25 $60,937.50 32.6 $63,570.00 33.58 $65,481.00 *6 7.5%
Lt. Baruti 2 20 $34.80 $67,862.30 $35.50 $69,219.55 $36.56 $71,296.13 *2 5.1%
new recruit 0 $19.14 $37,323.00 21.56 $42,042.00 24.94 $48,633.00 *16 30.3%
*1 no step changes, just 2  & 3%       two yr avg plus 1yr  
*2 moves to 21+ chart ??? But already above so just added 3%   10.40% 5.20%  
*3  goes from <20 to 21+ = 34.45 yr 1, 35.14 yr 2, 36.19 yr 3        
*4 30.54 + 2% yr 2 (31.16), 31.16 + 3% yr 3(32.09)         
*5 27.71 + 2% = 28.26 yr 2, 28.26 + 3% = 29.11 YR 3        
*6 goes to 21+ in yr 2- 31.96+2%=32.60, + 3% yr 3=33.58         
*7 27.71 + 2% = 28.26 yr 2, 28.26 + 3% = 29.11 YR 3        
*8 21.14+2%=21.56 yr 2. 21.56+3%=22.21 yr 3          
*9 33.84+2%=34.52 yr 2, 34.52+3%=35.55 yr 3          
*10 27.71 + 2% = 28.26 yr 2, 28.26 + 3% = 29.11 YR 3        
*11 23.74+2%=24.21 yr 2 – yr3 step 3 25.21+2%=25.71- +3%=26.49      
*12 27.71 + 2% = 28.26 yr 2, 28.26 + 3% = 29.11 YR 3        
*13 30.54+2%=31.15 yr2, 31.15+3%=32.09 yr 3          
*14 27.71 + 2% = 28.26 yr 2, yr3step 10 29.83+2%=30.43 + 3%=31.34      
*15 goes to 21+ in yr 2- 31.96+2%=32.60, + 3% yr 3=33.58         
*16 21.14+2%=21.56 yr2, yr3 step2-23.74+2%=24.21 +3%=24.94      
  new recruit same as above            
                   

That gives us an average raise of 5.2% per year (which is good compared to the last contract and most others that are around 7%).  So if I extend the salaries out the appropriate years to when they would retire, based on increases of 5.2% per year, that would give us a final salary at retirement. We still won’t have the holiday pay but that’s going to be small potatoes compared to the rest.

I would be happy to do that spreadsheet if you think those assumptions are good. Sound ok?

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16 Comments »

  1. I think it’s hard for towns to do anything but incremental change, meaningful change has to happen at the state level. Take EP, it looks like their efforts will be defeated by the GA.

    Comment by Gene Daniell — July 24, 2009 @ 10:15 am | Reply

  2. I disagree, Gene. The state’s proposal to change the rules RE binding arbitration or never ending contracts won’t apply to EP – but it is clearly a reaction to what happened there. But EP has cut wages and increased copays by 20% all at once. It’s not theory or plan, it’s actually being done. Towns are much more autonomous than they know -EP also implimented its own tax cap and did so years before S3050 was passed at the statehouse. We could put in one too if we had the will

    Comment by Editor — July 24, 2009 @ 12:42 pm | Reply

  3. Is what you’re proposing similiar to President Reagan’s union busting tactics?

    Comment by CharihoParent — July 24, 2009 @ 1:30 pm | Reply

  4. I am not convinced. EP did as much as a single community can do, but it still not enough to fundamentally fix the problems.

    Also, I’m not optimistic that EP will prevail in the courts and most interesting will be the next election in EP, will see if the tax payer anger will be sufficient high to keep the current SC in office.

    Comment by Gene Daniell — July 24, 2009 @ 3:54 pm | Reply

  5. While I dont disagree with your arguments here. I am interested to see what happens to the education at EP. The teachers could totally turn now and bascially not do anything. I think it is great they took a stand but I agree with Gene here, the jury is still out. Lets see if the courts rule in their favor and if the courts do then what happens? Do they basically just show up and go through the motion?

    Comment by WOW — July 24, 2009 @ 4:40 pm | Reply

    • Haven’t they been doing this for years?

      Comment by RS — July 26, 2009 @ 10:58 pm | Reply

  6. If that happens they should fire them. our kids education shouldn’t be used as a bargaining chip. The idea that that could happend best reason to end seniority based contracts

    Comment by Editor — July 24, 2009 @ 7:51 pm | Reply

  7. CP, Not sure I would call it union busting, but certainly contract busting. Technially, the contract with the police expired July 1. They were without a contract until last Monday. There was nothing legally stopping us from doing whatever we wanted. Yes, if I were a 1 man council I would have made drastic changes, and like EP, if they employees don’t like it they were free to leave and be replaced. Just like in the real world

    Comment by Editor — July 24, 2009 @ 7:56 pm | Reply

  8. Gene, The Unions are trying to buy the legislature which makes the laws and in turn the courts will say they only apply the laws the legislature makes. The radio is all over this with binding legislation to contact your legislature, your a good and smart man. Buy the legislators, make legislation and the politically appointed judges are scott free. Get out when and while you can. The only rung down is New Jersey. Maybe we can sell body parts in the chariho area to pay our taxes for ‘our children/administrators.’

    Comment by Nate — July 25, 2009 @ 6:44 pm | Reply

  9. I won’t apply the “buying” legislators tag to the unions. They are a tremendously capable political organization that raises money, lobby’s, and most importantly votes (and gets their friends to vote.

    They have gotten so good at winning that the goose who lays the golden eggs is on life support.

    For yours and the above reasons I don’t have tremendous sympathy for the unions if the pensions do implode. Fact is that that a strong minority has created a great, maybe fantastic, deal for themselves that is completely unsustainable.

    Comment by Gene Daniell — July 25, 2009 @ 6:54 pm | Reply

  10. Points well taken Gene.

    Comment by Nate — July 25, 2009 @ 7:01 pm | Reply

  11. editor in comment 6 you said ” if they do that just fire them” sounds great and sounds easy. for some reason I don’t think it would be that easy. As long as they show up to work and go through the motion I am sure it would be hard to fire them. And I do believe they use the students as bargining chips…..everywhere.

    Comment by WOW — July 25, 2009 @ 10:59 pm | Reply

    • As long as our ‘leaders’ continue to sign contracts that take this power away from us, you are correct. When will a majority of council members have the courage to do something about it? When we are bankrupt?

      Comment by Editor — July 27, 2009 @ 9:51 am | Reply

      • If we were required to fully fund the pensions today, we would already be bankrupt(laws not requiring full funding hide the debt)….instead we saddle our children with this debt and actually sleep well at night….go figure. We call ourselves responsible adults.

        Comment by RS — July 27, 2009 @ 10:11 am

  12. RS comment is the saddest one. We leave this lagacy for our kids (and grandkids). If I think about it I don’t sleep well at night. The trick must be not to think about it like the other guys and gals. We’ll be dead after all! America has changed from a place of individual responsibility to a place of collective greed!

    Comment by Concerned — July 27, 2009 @ 11:04 am | Reply

  13. HPD motto is to “protect and serve” themselves!

    Comment by Concerned — July 27, 2009 @ 11:06 am | Reply


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